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Show Notes

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Courageous Connections: Embracing Pluralism Amidst American Populism

In this Derate The Hate bonus episode, host Wilk Wilkinson sits down with fellow Braver Angels Ibrahim Anli and Will Harwood for a powerful discussion on cultural and religious pluralism in the face of American populism. 

They explore what it means to be American in today’s polarized climate and the importance of courageous connections in embracing diversity. Ibrahim, an immigrant to the U.S., and Will, a native-born American, share their personal insights on how America’s evolving identity can remain rooted in foundational civic values while allowing room for pluralism.

Key Topics:

  • The concept of American identity and civic creed
  • Embracing cultural pluralism and religious freedom
  • The challenges and opportunities of immigration in a populist era
  • How to build courageous connections across divides
  • The role of shared purpose in national unity
  • The importance of civic education and staying grounded in the nation’s foundational values

Featured Guests:

  • Ibrahim Anli – A passionate advocate for religious pluralism and an immigrant who chose America as his home
  • Will Harwood – A native-born American who focuses on civic culture and national identity

Takeaways:

  • Pluralism is vital to America’s identity, not as a melting pot but as a kaleidoscope of diverse cultures.
  • Courageous connections help bridge divides, whether through religious freedom, cultural exchange, or civic engagement.
  • We must continually reconnect with America’s founding ideals to move forward as a unified nation.

Listen Now to hear a thought-provoking conversation on how we can embrace diversity, overcome polarization, and strengthen the fabric of American society in the face of modern challenges.

The world is a better place if we are better people. That begins with each of us as individuals. Be kind to one another. Be grateful for all you’ve got. Make every day the day that you want it to be!

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The Derate The Hate podcast is proudly produced in collaboration with Braver Angels — America’s largest grassroots, cross-partisan organization working toward civic renewal and bridging partisan divides. Learn more: BraverAngels.org

Welcome to the Derate The Hate Podcast!

*The views expressed by Wilk, his guest hosts &/or guests on the Derate The Hate podcast are their own and should not be attributed to any organization they may otherwise be affiliated with.

Show Transcript

Transcript is AI generated and may contain errors

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:32:03

Wilk Wilkinson

Do you ever feel uneasy about the changes happening in our society today? Are you concerned or maybe even fearful about how immigration, cultural pluralism and religious diversity are reshaping the very fabric of our national identity? Americanization means the process of becoming an American. It means civic incorporation, becoming a part of the polity, becoming one of us. But that does not mean conformity.

 

00:00:32:05 - 00:00:59:11

Wilk Wilkinson

We are more than a melting pot. We are a kaleidoscope. This is a quote from Barbara Jordan, civil rights icon and constitutional scholar, and it reminds us that being an American isn't about sameness. It's about shared purpose. It's about civic belonging. And it's about embracing the vibrant, refracted diversity that makes this country not just a place, but a promise.

 

00:00:59:12 - 00:01:20:04

Wilk Wilkinson

In today's episode, I am joined by two fellow braver angels. Will Harwood and Ibrahim Anli for a powerful conversation about civic culture, national identity and what it means to choose America not just as a home, but as a story we live into together.

 

00:01:20:04 - 00:01:23:13

Ibrahim Anli

it was this living contract. And I'll quote,

 

00:01:23:13 - 00:01:41:02

Ibrahim Anli

Alexis de Tocqueville, maybe not in an exact word form, but he says the the greatest strength of Americans is their ability and willingness to to face their shortcomings, to encounter their shortcomings.

 

00:01:41:04 - 00:01:42:21

Ibrahim Anli

That is being just,

 

00:01:42:21 - 00:01:44:05

Ibrahim Anli

such,

 

00:01:44:05 - 00:01:47:00

Ibrahim Anli

a profound part of this

 

00:01:47:00 - 00:01:49:00

Will Harwood

I think that there's a fundamental,

 

00:01:49:00 - 00:01:56:10

Will Harwood

optimism and sense of we rise to our challenges, whatever those are, as a country, and we find our way through.

 

00:01:56:12 - 00:01:57:07

Will Harwood

And,

 

00:01:57:07 - 00:02:05:13

Will Harwood

to me, that is a that's a fundamental American spirit, right? Like we're going to be able to get through whatever the challenges are. Now, today with polarization, I always say,

 

00:02:05:13 - 00:02:12:05

Will Harwood

we don't we don't choose. No American generation has ever sat down and chosen the challenges that it's confronting.

 

00:02:12:06 - 00:02:14:00

Will Harwood

But always we've risen to them.

 

00:02:14:00 - 00:02:16:11

Ibrahim Anli

it's it's just the story of,

 

00:02:16:11 - 00:02:30:08

Ibrahim Anli

another individual who, as you said, chooses this country to as as his home and to a very large number of countries in the world.

 

00:02:30:10 - 00:02:32:12

Ibrahim Anli

This whole idea of,

 

00:02:32:12 - 00:02:44:02

Ibrahim Anli

adopting that country as your home is a lot of technicalities. It's a matter of technicalities. It's not a matter of story or identity.

 

00:02:44:02 - 00:02:47:05

Ibrahim Anli

Even if that happens, that that happens in,

 

00:02:47:05 - 00:02:55:12

Ibrahim Anli

multiple generations. Not in the case of the United States. It is this living contract,

 

00:02:55:12 - 00:02:57:18

Ibrahim Anli

way beyond technicalities,

 

00:02:57:18 - 00:03:05:19

Will Harwood

I think part of the challenge that we have to do today is also ground ourselves so that we have that shared understanding of what the civic culture needs to be,

 

00:03:05:19 - 00:03:07:13

Will Harwood

and how we can set that forward.

 

00:03:07:13 - 00:03:40:13

Wilk Wilkinson

Two Americans, one natural born, one by choice. Different backgrounds and beliefs. Coming together for a conversation about optimism, realism and the living contract we all share as citizens. It's about grounding ourselves in civic culture, not as nostalgia, but as a forward looking foundation. So whether you're feeling hopeful or uncertain, this discussion is for you. Let's roll that intro and get into this bonus episode.

 

00:03:40:13 - 00:04:29:22

Wilk Wilkinson

Welcome back, my friends, for the Derate The Hate podcast. I'm your host, Wilk Wilkinson, your blue collar sage calming outrage and helping to navigate a world divided by fog. And those who would spread that fear, outrage and grievance. The Derate the Hate podcast is proudly produced in collaboration with Braver Angels, America's largest grassroots cross Partizan organization working towards civic renewal.

 

00:04:30:00 - 00:04:57:04

Wilk Wilkinson

This podcast amplifies the mission that we share to foster a more respectful and united America where civic friendship thrives even when we disagree. Each week, through the power of story, conversation, and connection with incredible guests, we work to build bridges instead of barriers, not to change minds on the issues, but to change how we see one another when we differ.

 

00:04:57:06 - 00:05:21:13

Wilk Wilkinson

Because friends, it really is about bettering the world one attitude at a time. We did not create the hate, but together we can Derate The Hate. So be sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcast. Share it with a friend and visit Braver angels.org to learn how you can get involved in the movement to bridge the partizan divide.

 

00:05:21:15 - 00:05:30:09

Wilk Wilkinson

Friends, I am so incredibly grateful that you have joined me for another powerful Derate The Hate episode. So let's get to it.

 

00:05:31:04 - 00:06:13:00

Wilk Wilkinson

In today's conversation. Ibrahim Anli and Will Harwood discuss the complex balance between religious and cultural pluralism and American identity, particularly in this populist era. Ibrahim, as an immigrant, reflects on the concept of a living contract, an evolving civic creed that transcends legalities, reminding us that America's strength lies in its ability to self-correct and adapt. He emphasizes that America's unique power lies in its openness to newcomers, allowing for personal and religious freedom, a space where immigrants like him can find both refuge and opportunity.

 

00:06:13:02 - 00:06:39:03

Wilk Wilkinson

Will builds on this by underscoring the importance of grounding ourselves in the nation's founding principles, especially the Constitution. He points to the ongoing challenges of polarization and skepticism, but encourages an optimistic outlook rooted in historic resilience, reminding us that America's greatness is defined by its ability to confront adversity through open conversation.

 

00:06:39:03 - 00:06:48:08

Wilk Wilkinson

Together, Ibrahim and will highlight that embracing both cultural pluralism and a shared commitment to foundational values is

 

00:06:48:12 - 00:06:51:15

Wilk Wilkinson

The key to overcoming division and ensuring

 

00:06:51:15 - 00:06:59:06

Wilk Wilkinson

the American experiment continues to thrive. Let's get into it with my friends, Will and Ibrahim! Here we go.

 

00:06:59:06 - 00:07:00:11

Wilk Wilkinson

Ibrahim,

 

00:07:00:11 - 00:07:01:14

Wilk Wilkinson

Anli and,

 

00:07:01:14 - 00:07:09:23

Wilk Wilkinson

Will Harwood, thank you so much for joining me for this special episode of the Derate The Hate podcast. I appreciate you guys being here today.

 

00:07:10:01 - 00:07:11:12

Ibrahim Anli

Thank you. Happy to be here.

 

00:07:11:14 - 00:07:13:21

Will Harwood

Great to be with you guys.

 

00:07:13:23 - 00:07:17:05

Wilk Wilkinson

Yeah. So so excited for this conversation.

 

00:07:17:05 - 00:07:22:00

Wilk Wilkinson

you guys have both been part of Braver Angels for for a while now,

 

00:07:22:00 - 00:07:35:09

Wilk Wilkinson

and know how important it is to have these, these wonderful conversations freely, fully without fear and and. Will, when you came to me with the idea that that,

 

00:07:35:09 - 00:07:48:07

Wilk Wilkinson

that there was a relationship that you had been building with Ibrahim and, and on and then this topic of, religious pluralism and, and how that worked with,

 

00:07:48:07 - 00:07:54:00

Wilk Wilkinson

American identity and in this, this kind of populist era.

 

00:07:54:02 - 00:08:03:14

Wilk Wilkinson

It just it was such an interesting idea, and I thought it was such an important concept that we should bring this, this conversation.

 

00:08:03:14 - 00:08:05:07

Wilk Wilkinson

Between the two of you,

 

00:08:05:07 - 00:08:17:01

Wilk Wilkinson

to the listeners, because because this is one of those conversations and one of those things that I think is on a lot of people's minds, especially today in this, in this era that we're in.

 

00:08:17:03 - 00:08:17:15

Wilk Wilkinson

And,

 

00:08:17:15 - 00:08:23:18

Wilk Wilkinson

for the two of you to step up and be willing to, to have that that conversation,

 

00:08:23:18 - 00:08:29:19

Wilk Wilkinson

right now is, is is incredible. So thank you both very much for,

 

00:08:29:19 - 00:08:32:07

Wilk Wilkinson

for being here today.

 

00:08:32:09 - 00:08:37:03

Will Harwood

Absolutely. Yeah. Thank you, Wilk, for having us. It's really I'm excited for the conversation.

 

00:08:37:03 - 00:08:39:04

Will Harwood

That we can jump into. And I'll just say,

 

00:08:39:04 - 00:08:39:20

Will Harwood

when I,

 

00:08:39:20 - 00:08:50:21

Will Harwood

Ibrahim and I were talking about this originally, one of the things that I love so much about Braver Angels is that it brings you together with really great Americans, people that are looking to build,

 

00:08:50:21 - 00:08:51:18

Will Harwood

and to,

 

00:08:51:18 - 00:08:58:08

Will Harwood

take on the challenge of polarization to restart the conversations, to engage, to get together.

 

00:08:58:10 - 00:08:59:17

Will Harwood

And, Ibrahim,

 

00:08:59:17 - 00:09:01:15

Will Harwood

from the first moment that I met him,

 

00:09:01:15 - 00:09:05:20

Will Harwood

has always struck me in, the meetings where

 

00:09:05:20 - 00:09:08:19

Will Harwood

I walk away and I leave with thoughts,

 

00:09:08:19 - 00:09:11:06

Will Harwood

that are provoking and,

 

00:09:11:06 - 00:09:12:22

Will Harwood

things that stick with me,

 

00:09:12:22 - 00:09:16:12

Will Harwood

so I can go back all the way through, probably to the first time, Ibrahim, that you and I met.

 

00:09:16:17 - 00:09:19:04

Will Harwood

And I can recount the,

 

00:09:19:04 - 00:09:22:07

Will Harwood

pieces of of insight that you've shared.

 

00:09:22:07 - 00:09:23:14

Will Harwood

So rich and,

 

00:09:23:14 - 00:09:27:16

Will Harwood

obviously we come. We're all coming together as Americans first and foremost.

 

00:09:27:16 - 00:09:31:14

Will Harwood

And but we all come with our own unique backgrounds and stories.

 

00:09:31:14 - 00:09:39:03

Will Harwood

But this, this topic of American identity, to me, is sort of the fundamental question today,

 

00:09:39:03 - 00:09:40:23

Will Harwood

of what it is that defines us.

 

00:09:40:23 - 00:09:42:17

Will Harwood

And if you just look at the,

 

00:09:42:17 - 00:09:44:12

Will Harwood

the past couple of weeks,

 

00:09:44:12 - 00:09:49:20

Will Harwood

the vice president, J.D. Vance, I don't know if you saw his speech at the Claremont Institute,

 

00:09:49:20 - 00:09:54:21

Will Harwood

recently, but it was really centered on these exact topics. I was just looking at that up,

 

00:09:54:21 - 00:10:01:00

Will Harwood

in preparation for this, this call. But he was putting forward a lot of the same kind of core,

 

00:10:01:00 - 00:10:03:12

Will Harwood

concepts of how do we deal with,

 

00:10:03:12 - 00:10:06:10

Will Harwood

cultural diversity and also,

 

00:10:06:10 - 00:10:14:02

Will Harwood

religious diversity, cultural diversity, but also having that shared sense of what it means to be American and making sure that our identity can be,

 

00:10:14:02 - 00:10:14:22

Will Harwood

above that,

 

00:10:14:22 - 00:10:15:09

Will Harwood

at the higher

 

00:10:15:09 - 00:10:20:19

Will Harwood

level in a, in a respect. So I'm really thrilled to to join you guys for this conversation.

 

00:10:20:21 - 00:10:23:04

Wilk Wilkinson

Yeah. Me too. So, so, Ibrahim,

 

00:10:23:04 - 00:10:27:17

Wilk Wilkinson

let let me let me ask you then, then right off the bat because,

 

00:10:27:17 - 00:10:28:08

Wilk Wilkinson

I know,

 

00:10:28:08 - 00:10:30:06

Wilk Wilkinson

both Will and I were born,

 

00:10:30:06 - 00:10:34:23

Wilk Wilkinson

born here, native to the United States. But you are,

 

00:10:34:23 - 00:10:47:20

Wilk Wilkinson

you you are somebody who immigrated to the United States. So when when people talk about the American identity and and what the American identity is and and,

 

00:10:47:20 - 00:10:55:20

Wilk Wilkinson

what does that mean to you as somebody who, who, who chose to come here and chose to make that,

 

00:10:55:20 - 00:10:59:00

Wilk Wilkinson

part of a part of your life because,

 

00:10:59:00 - 00:11:03:20

Wilk Wilkinson

I think there's obviously a, a, a paradox there,

 

00:11:03:20 - 00:11:04:09

Wilk Wilkinson

that, that a

 

00:11:04:09 - 00:11:14:14

Wilk Wilkinson

lot of people don't quite understand. Yes, we are all Americans. Well, and I by birth, you by choice. So talk to me about,

 

00:11:14:14 - 00:11:21:22

Wilk Wilkinson

about the American identity and what that means to you and why that is so important to you.

 

00:11:22:00 - 00:11:23:04

Ibrahim Anli

Yeah. Thank you. And,

 

00:11:23:04 - 00:11:32:21

Ibrahim Anli

just a note of of gratitude and acknowledgment of two braver angels, which has truly been this welcoming,

 

00:11:32:21 - 00:11:43:04

Ibrahim Anli

not only welcoming, but really well functioning home at that, at this moment of intense effort to to retell

 

00:11:43:04 - 00:11:59:17

Ibrahim Anli

the story of this country and who we are and what as a country, as a society, we have stood for and we should be standing for moving forward, what we want to leave to our children and and more particularly into my story.

 

00:11:59:19 - 00:12:04:17

Ibrahim Anli

Yes, I was born and raised overseas and spent my formative years,

 

00:12:04:17 - 00:12:16:19

Ibrahim Anli

away from the US. Though I was always very closely exposed because I was fortunate to have a large cohort of American teachers at my school.

 

00:12:16:19 - 00:12:30:05

Ibrahim Anli

And as a teenager and, and after those years, basically, I don't think I had any, any week without something connected to or from or related to,

 

00:12:30:05 - 00:12:33:14

Ibrahim Anli

United States in my professional role as,

 

00:12:33:14 - 00:12:37:03

Ibrahim Anli

as in nonprofit work and frequently,

 

00:12:37:03 - 00:12:39:08

Ibrahim Anli

visiting the US and also,

 

00:12:39:08 - 00:12:41:06

Ibrahim Anli

studying here in the past,

 

00:12:41:06 - 00:12:43:02

Ibrahim Anli

as an international student.

 

00:12:43:04 - 00:12:43:22

Ibrahim Anli

But,

 

00:12:43:22 - 00:12:45:21

Ibrahim Anli

this story is,

 

00:12:45:21 - 00:12:56:13

Ibrahim Anli

unique. So it's like fingers. They're all fingers, but they have all their unique fingerprints. I think my story is one. So it's it's just the story of,

 

00:12:56:13 - 00:13:10:10

Ibrahim Anli

another individual who, as you said, chooses this country to as as his home and to a very large number of countries in the world.

 

00:13:10:12 - 00:13:12:14

Ibrahim Anli

This whole idea of,

 

00:13:12:14 - 00:13:24:04

Ibrahim Anli

adopting that country as your home is a lot of technicalities. It's a matter of technicalities. It's not a matter of story or identity.

 

00:13:24:04 - 00:13:27:07

Ibrahim Anli

Even if that happens, that that happens in,

 

00:13:27:07 - 00:13:35:14

Ibrahim Anli

multiple generations. Not in the case of the United States. It is this living contract,

 

00:13:35:14 - 00:13:37:21

Ibrahim Anli

way beyond technicalities,

 

00:13:37:21 - 00:13:45:22

Ibrahim Anli

and, that you choose to be part of, to uphold and to, to, to and you believe it.

 

00:13:46:00 - 00:13:55:19

Ibrahim Anli

So, and as a, as a reference to our larger conversations nowadays, that's one reason that,

 

00:13:55:19 - 00:13:58:02

Ibrahim Anli

immigration is, is,

 

00:13:58:02 - 00:14:11:21

Ibrahim Anli

part of the strength, the drive, the, the, the wonderful story of this country. And it's because of its such unique role. It has been part of the challenge. So that's again,

 

00:14:11:21 - 00:14:14:23

Ibrahim Anli

quite specific to very few countries.

 

00:14:15:01 - 00:14:20:13

Ibrahim Anli

And to me, it means being part of this,

 

00:14:20:13 - 00:14:24:12

Ibrahim Anli

wider contract. Some part of it is,

 

00:14:24:12 - 00:14:30:12

Ibrahim Anli

is codified, such as the Constitution and some other parts of it is,

 

00:14:30:12 - 00:14:37:03

Ibrahim Anli

is a is a civic creed. That's how I would put it. And

 

00:14:37:03 - 00:14:43:23

Ibrahim Anli

Braver Angels, for example, has been very successful because it is helping people.

 

00:14:43:23 - 00:14:52:19

Ibrahim Anli

During this time of maybe soul searching, reconnect with that whole idea of civic creed, of who we are.

 

00:14:52:21 - 00:14:53:08

Wilk Wilkinson

Yeah.

 

00:14:53:08 - 00:14:55:22

Wilk Wilkinson

so talk to me then a little bit more,

 

00:14:55:22 - 00:14:57:09

Wilk Wilkinson

about and then I'll, and then I'll get

 

00:14:57:09 - 00:14:59:12

Wilk Wilkinson

your input on this Will, but

 

00:14:59:12 - 00:15:01:12

Wilk Wilkinson

talk to me a little bit about,

 

00:15:01:12 - 00:15:08:05

Wilk Wilkinson

you said a couple of things like civic creed and living contract that that really,

 

00:15:08:05 - 00:15:10:05

Wilk Wilkinson

I, I would just love to know,

 

00:15:10:05 - 00:15:13:05

Wilk Wilkinson

when you talk about things like that, what what does that mean?

 

00:15:13:05 - 00:15:14:14

Wilk Wilkinson

And, and how,

 

00:15:14:14 - 00:15:15:20

Wilk Wilkinson

what is,

 

00:15:15:20 - 00:15:17:16

Wilk Wilkinson

what is our responsibility as

 

00:15:17:16 - 00:15:24:07

Wilk Wilkinson

native born Americans in that? And then what is your responsibility as somebody who's, who's come to this country,

 

00:15:24:07 - 00:15:27:12

Wilk Wilkinson

to to be part of that?

 

00:15:27:14 - 00:15:35:20

Ibrahim Anli

Yeah, this, this idea of living contract. Of course, we can have multiple versions of wording it and approaching it, but,

 

00:15:35:20 - 00:15:46:22

Ibrahim Anli

the, the Founding Fathers, in my understanding, highlighted a vision that in practice was,

 

00:15:46:22 - 00:15:49:13

Ibrahim Anli

trusted to people to be,

 

00:15:49:13 - 00:16:01:12

Ibrahim Anli

traveled towards constantly. That's why it's a living contract. It's been reinterpreted and retold almost by every generation.

 

00:16:01:14 - 00:16:02:02

Ibrahim Anli

And,

 

00:16:02:02 - 00:16:17:21

Ibrahim Anli

like speaking of Americans religious history, I remember hearing a comment what? It was primarily Protestants who started the country and then those who came and protested them, and those who came afterwards protested them. But,

 

00:16:17:21 - 00:16:24:07

Ibrahim Anli

speaking of the larger public sphere, it was this living contract. And I'll quote,

 

00:16:24:07 - 00:16:41:20

Ibrahim Anli

Alexis de Tocqueville, maybe not in an exact word form, but he says the the greatest strength of Americans is their ability and willingness to to face their shortcomings, to encounter their shortcomings.

 

00:16:41:22 - 00:16:43:15

Ibrahim Anli

That is being just,

 

00:16:43:15 - 00:16:44:23

Ibrahim Anli

such,

 

00:16:44:23 - 00:16:50:05

Ibrahim Anli

a profound part of this story. So,

 

00:16:50:05 - 00:16:56:22

Ibrahim Anli

and and that should also mean if we are talking about a living contract,

 

00:16:56:22 - 00:17:01:09

Ibrahim Anli

a sense of continuity together with a sense of connection.

 

00:17:01:09 - 00:17:10:16

Ibrahim Anli

So our our search, in my opinion, should not mean, just adventurous,

 

00:17:10:16 - 00:17:14:01

Ibrahim Anli

disconnection with, with with the story.

 

00:17:14:06 - 00:17:22:08

Ibrahim Anli

This is our story. With ups and downs, with moments that we can be proud of and with other moments that we cannot but,

 

00:17:22:08 - 00:17:23:20

Ibrahim Anli

that's how,

 

00:17:23:20 - 00:17:28:09

Ibrahim Anli

I think it's, it has evolved and it it should be evolving. Just,

 

00:17:28:09 - 00:17:33:09

Ibrahim Anli

we should be traveling with this sense of incompleteness.

 

00:17:33:09 - 00:17:33:20

Ibrahim Anli

And

 

00:17:33:20 - 00:17:37:01

Ibrahim Anli

which I believe again, has been this,

 

00:17:37:01 - 00:17:58:15

Ibrahim Anli

productive cycle since the time of the Founding Fathers and, and with, with the living Creed I'm referring to maybe more or less contractual, but more relational parts of it, that the sense of people who that's beyond mechanics and it, it did exist.

 

00:17:58:17 - 00:18:03:16

Ibrahim Anli

The, this country wouldn't have been around if, hadn't if that didn't exist.

 

00:18:03:18 - 00:18:08:00

Wilk Wilkinson

Right. Right now and will so so when we think about that,

 

00:18:08:00 - 00:18:15:01

Wilk Wilkinson

that living contract that, that that America is, is, is a constantly evolving thing. And,

 

00:18:15:01 - 00:18:17:16

Wilk Wilkinson

we are constantly working through,

 

00:18:17:16 - 00:18:19:23

Wilk Wilkinson

new challenges or,

 

00:18:19:23 - 00:18:22:08

Wilk Wilkinson

being willing to,

 

00:18:22:08 - 00:18:24:07

Wilk Wilkinson

to step up and accept our,

 

00:18:24:07 - 00:18:25:04

Wilk Wilkinson

our problems

 

00:18:25:04 - 00:18:27:05

Wilk Wilkinson

and work through those together.

 

00:18:27:07 - 00:18:33:12

Wilk Wilkinson

And so talk, talk to me a little bit about how you see that in terms of,

 

00:18:33:12 - 00:18:40:10

Wilk Wilkinson

the civic creed and what we are trying to do here that is, is fairly uniquely American.

 

00:18:40:12 - 00:18:47:04

Will Harwood

Yeah. I mean, I think just going back to actually something that Ibrahim said, just as we were kind of talking through the idea of this, is that,

 

00:18:47:04 - 00:18:52:04

Will Harwood

we have to make this work and we do make this work. So I think that there's a fundamental,

 

00:18:52:04 - 00:18:59:14

Will Harwood

optimism and sense of we rise to our challenges, whatever those are, as a country, and we find our way through.

 

00:18:59:16 - 00:19:00:11

Will Harwood

And,

 

00:19:00:11 - 00:19:08:17

Will Harwood

to me, that is a that's a fundamental American spirit, right? Like we're going to be able to get through whatever the challenges are. Now, today with polarization, I always say,

 

00:19:08:17 - 00:19:15:09

Will Harwood

we don't we don't choose. No American generation has ever sat down and chosen the challenges that it's confronting.

 

00:19:15:09 - 00:19:17:03

Will Harwood

But always we've risen to them.

 

00:19:17:03 - 00:19:24:23

Will Harwood

And that goes back to beating the biggest empire in the world for our founders or for at our founding. The revolution to the Civil War,

 

00:19:24:23 - 00:19:26:02

Will Harwood

and to the,

 

00:19:26:02 - 00:19:32:08

Will Harwood

the defining wars of the 20th century and every other social movement that's come through. We find our way through,

 

00:19:32:08 - 00:19:38:11

Will Harwood

and I think that that is a kind of an attitude that we have that we have to maintain and, and,

 

00:19:38:11 - 00:19:41:22

Will Harwood

and making sure that we can find the productive ways to do that.

 

00:19:41:22 - 00:19:53:00

Will Harwood

The way we have to do that is to talk to each other and to be able to have these direct conversations about important topics that we're able to chart the right course. But,

 

00:19:53:00 - 00:19:55:03

Will Harwood

when I think about, well, the,

 

00:19:55:03 - 00:20:00:12

Will Harwood

this question of, of American civics and,

 

00:20:00:12 - 00:20:08:09

Will Harwood

the civic contract that we have and then also the founding ideals of the country with the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence.

 

00:20:08:11 - 00:20:18:15

Will Harwood

Those are ones where to me, when I when we talk about our challenges, I think that one of our greatest challenges is that we're not as grounded in those as we need to be. We don't have as much of a sense of,

 

00:20:18:15 - 00:20:20:12

Will Harwood

that that grounding,

 

00:20:20:12 - 00:20:22:20

Will Harwood

civic education, if you will.

 

00:20:22:20 - 00:20:34:13

Will Harwood

That allows us to be confident in what we are and when you when you lack of confidence from that knowledge, I think it can be things can go off the rails.

 

00:20:34:13 - 00:20:42:18

Will Harwood

So I think part of the challenge that we have to do today is also ground ourselves so that we have that shared understanding of what the civic culture needs to be,

 

00:20:42:18 - 00:20:44:20

Will Harwood

and how we can set that forward.

 

00:20:44:20 - 00:20:46:19

Will Harwood

And to me that,

 

00:20:46:19 - 00:20:52:11

Will Harwood

that's part of this conversation here is that we all need to reassert and engage as much as we can,

 

00:20:52:11 - 00:21:01:03

Will Harwood

to help us unpack that so we can come to that shared understanding of what what American civic obligations are that we have and so forth.

 

00:21:01:03 - 00:21:04:01

Wilk Wilkinson

So so I have a question for both of you then. So,

 

00:21:04:01 - 00:21:11:13

Wilk Wilkinson

when we think about those, those obligations and what we as, as Americans,

 

00:21:11:13 - 00:21:18:05

Wilk Wilkinson

which I think we all agree this, this thing that we have in America is, is pretty unique to the United States of America.

 

00:21:18:05 - 00:21:24:17

Wilk Wilkinson

so when we think about those things, what are our obligations then?

 

00:21:24:17 - 00:21:26:03

Wilk Wilkinson

And I'll start with you,

 

00:21:26:03 - 00:21:28:21

Wilk Wilkinson

Will, when we,

 

00:21:28:21 - 00:21:33:16

Wilk Wilkinson

we see that a lot of times today,

 

00:21:33:16 - 00:21:34:21

Wilk Wilkinson

especially in,

 

00:21:34:21 - 00:21:43:01

Wilk Wilkinson

in the more populist era and the things where, where our politics seem to go by the whims of whoever seems to be in office at the time,

 

00:21:43:01 - 00:21:48:21

Wilk Wilkinson

what are our obligations as a citizen when it comes to the civic creed, the

 

00:21:48:21 - 00:21:51:21

Wilk Wilkinson

civic contract?

 

00:21:51:23 - 00:21:58:07

Wilk Wilkinson

Just we'll talk about that real quick for me. And then I want to turn that question over to Ibrahim.

 

00:21:58:09 - 00:22:20:07

Will Harwood

So I think that we need to keep a focus on we all have our own personal stories and our personal identities, which are unique to us like nobody else. Just as Ibrahim said, it's a fingerprint. We're each our own fingerprint. And that goes back to our stories, our families, our histories. How we got to where we are and we,

 

00:22:20:07 - 00:22:21:10

Will Harwood

take pride in those.

 

00:22:21:10 - 00:22:24:11

Will Harwood

That's that's integral to our identity.

 

00:22:24:11 - 00:

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