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Guest: John Wood Jr.
Original Air Date: Episode 165 June 14, 2023
Host: Wilk Wilkinson, Derate The Hate Podcast
I’m taking a short break this week for some well-earned rest and family time, and I wanted to bring back one of the most important conversations ever featured on Derate The Hate. This replay features the first-ever DTH appearance of John Wood Jr., National Ambassador for Braver Angels and a voice of reason in a divided time.
🎤 Who is John Wood Jr.?
A nationally recognized speaker, columnist for USA Today, and podcaster, John is helping lead the charge in the American depolarization movement.
âś… Key Takeaways:
✔️ “Polarization is the one problem that ensures all other problems won’t be solved.”
✔️ How to work effectively with people you disagree with
✔️ The toxic trap of whataboutism
✔️ Why media and politicians pander to the extremes
✔️ The importance of long-term thinking over outrage culture
✔️ Why conservatives didn’t engage until they were enraged
Polarization isn’t just a political issue—it’s a personal one. This conversation delivers tools and insights for bridging divides, building understanding, and choosing connection over conflict.
📢 Don’t just listen—share this episode.
Your next conversation could be one that bridges a divide.
🎧 Available now wherever you get your podcasts.
What have you done today to make your life a better life? What have you done today to make the world a better place? The world is a better place if we are better people. That begins with each of us as individuals. Be kind to one another. Be grateful for everything you’ve got. Make each and every day the day that you want it to be!
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I look forward to hearing from you!
Transcript is AI generated and may contain inaccuracies
00;00;00;00 - 00;00;43;18
Wilk Wilkinson
Welcome back, my friends, to the Derate the Hate podcast. I am your host, Wilk Wilkinson, your blue collar sage, calming outrage and helping to navigate a world divided by FOG, and those who would spread that fear, outrage and grievance. Each week I'm sharing stories from my path and using the power of conversation and collaboration with my many great guests.
00;00;43;20 - 00;01;07;29
Wilk Wilkinson
Together, we chart a course toward understanding, bridging divides and fostering a community where wisdom prevails over discord. Friends, it really is about bettering the world, one attitude at a time. We did not create the hate, but together we can Derate the hate. The only good thing about a bad attitude is we have the ability as individuals to change it.
00;01;08;02 - 00;01;31;03
Wilk Wilkinson
For me, it starts with gratitude and personal accountability. I am so incredibly grateful that you have taken the time to join me for another powerful DTH episode. Please remember to subscribe and share the DTH podcast with your network of friends. If you would like to support the show, check out the Support Us page on the Derate the Hate website. With that, my friends, let's get to it.
00;01;31;04 - 00;01;54;18
Wilk Wilkinson
Friends. I'm taking a little time this week to enjoy some much needed R&R and quality time with my family, but I didn't want to leave you hanging, so I am bringing back a true Derate the Hate classic from episode 165, featuring the first time I introduced you to my good friend and braver angels National Ambassador John Wood Jr.
00;01;54;21 - 00;02;13;05
Wilk Wilkinson
This incredible conversation is just as powerful and relevant today as it was then. So sit back, soak it in, and let's keep bettering the world together. Easy way to do that. Hit that share button. So let's get to this incredible conversation with John Wood Jr. Here we go.
00;02;13;05 - 00;02;25;07
Wilk Wilkinson
John Wood Jr. My Braver Angels brother. National ambassador to Braver Angels. Thank you so much for taking the time to join me on the Derate The Hate podcast, John. I've been looking forward to it for sure.
00;02;25;10 - 00;02;29;14
John Wood Jr.
Brother Wilk, it's always a pleasure to talk to you. And, all the more so,
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John Wood Jr.
doing it,
00;02;30;00 - 00;02;34;10
John Wood Jr.
hot on the mic. So we're finally doing it, man. I'm glad we could make the time.
00;02;34;13 - 00;02;44;28
Wilk Wilkinson
We are finally doing it. You know, it's it's funny. We've been doing doing things together for, It's got to be a couple of years now with our favorite organization, Braver Angels. And,
00;02;44;28 - 00;02;47;02
Wilk Wilkinson
I've had cameo on your show.
00;02;47;02 - 00;02;49;01
Wilk Wilkinson
I know I've referenced your work
00;02;49;01 - 00;02;56;26
Wilk Wilkinson
on mine plenty of times, and this is the first time we've actually sat down for a conversation together on the mic, just you and I.
00;02;56;29 - 00;02;57;13
Wilk Wilkinson
And,
00;02;57;13 - 00;03;21;12
Wilk Wilkinson
so grateful for a man. So grateful for it. And more than that, I'm grateful for all the work that you've been doing with Braver Angels for as long as you have. So, John, a lot of the DTH listeners are very familiar with Braver Angels because of of me talking about them, obviously, but I can not nearly as eloquently talk about braver angels as you do, John.
00;03;21;12 - 00;03;21;26
Wilk Wilkinson
So,
00;03;21;26 - 00;03;29;13
Wilk Wilkinson
tell me, John Wood Jr, how did you get involved with Braver Angels and
00;03;29;13 - 00;03;34;15
Wilk Wilkinson
what do you do in your role as National Ambassador for braver Angel?
00;03;34;17 - 00;03;36;01
John Wood Jr.
Yeah. Well, appreciate
00;03;36;01 - 00;03;51;11
John Wood Jr.
the question. You know, it's one of those things where I'm always trying to figure out, like, okay, do I give the, you know, the medium version, the long version, the extra long version, the extra, extra long version, agents to the story. There's not too many short ones.
00;03;51;11 - 00;03;52;29
John Wood Jr.
But I'll try and shoot somewhere,
00;03;52;29 - 00;03;55;01
John Wood Jr.
in the middle here.
00;03;55;04 - 00;03;55;24
Wilk Wilkinson
Man.
00;03;55;26 - 00;03;59;13
John Wood Jr.
Yeah, well, you know, so I guess I'll just pick it up.
00;03;59;13 - 00;04;05;19
John Wood Jr.
I'll I'll skip a whole lot of life details and say that I'm a person who who grew up a liberal activist,
00;04;05;19 - 00;04;15;22
John Wood Jr.
who was very inspired by Barack Obama's 2008 campaign, who believed that the idea behind hope and change was sort of creating sort of a,
00;04;15;22 - 00;04;18;11
John Wood Jr.
a post-partisan, post-racial sort of America.
00;04;18;14 - 00;04;26;02
John Wood Jr.
I was one of many people who was inspired by Obama's, 2004 keynote address. I don't know if you remember it well, but it was the one that really,
00;04;26;02 - 00;04;28;01
John Wood Jr.
delivered him to the national stage.
00;04;28;01 - 00;04;29;27
Wilk Wilkinson
Brought him to the national stage? Yup.
00;04;29;29 - 00;04;39;24
John Wood Jr.
Yeah. He said we're not red states or blue states or the United States of America. We're not, you know, black, white or Latino America. This is the United States of America. And,
00;04;39;24 - 00;04;44;28
John Wood Jr.
I had really thrown myself behind Obama's campaign and,
00;04;44;28 - 00;04;46;23
John Wood Jr.
started really studying,
00;04;46;23 - 00;04;55;20
John Wood Jr.
conservatism and Republican perspectives from the vantage point of somebody who wanted to bring Republicans into this unifying Obama movement.
00;04;55;21 - 00;05;09;08
John Wood Jr.
Now, I had always had conservatives and and folks who have more traditional values in my family. So that was in my background. But I really leaned into it in terms of consciously studying some of those things,
00;05;09;08 - 00;05;13;07
John Wood Jr.
at that time and wound up experiencing this very,
00;05;13;07 - 00;05;18;00
John Wood Jr.
this very disconcerting realization after having studied,
00;05;18;00 - 00;05;19;06
John Wood Jr.
you know, conservatism,
00;05;19;06 - 00;05;30;20
John Wood Jr.
for, for a certain period of time in an effort to convert Republicans, I looked up and sort of started asking myself questions, and I went down a list of issues and asking myself where I stood on them.
00;05;30;23 - 00;05;39;16
John Wood Jr.
And I looked up on names like, Holy cow, I kind of am a Republican myself and really didn't like that realization. It was like coming out of the closet or something like that.
00;05;39;17 - 00;05;40;29
Wilk Wilkinson
Oh man.
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John Wood Jr.
Yeah, I know it was terrible Wilk, it was terrible.
00;05;43;20 - 00;05;46;15
John Wood Jr.
Good. But you know, the thing that remained,
00;05;46;15 - 00;06;03;13
John Wood Jr.
true about me was that, you know, I believed in what I considered to be sort of the the original sort of, you know, Obama vision or the Obama vision, as I understood it from that early campaign, just wanted to bring people together, wanting to make it possible for people to understand each other humanely, empathetically,
00;06;03;13 - 00;06;06;14
John Wood Jr.
across party and race and religion and so forth.
00;06;06;17 - 00;06;14;06
John Wood Jr.
So I ran for Congress. I ran for Congress against Maxine Waters as an unknown Republican challenger in 2014, in,
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John Wood Jr.
South Los Angeles.
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John Wood Jr.
I lost, but I lost in the smallest landslide of any,
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John Wood Jr.
Republican or Democrat would ever run against Maxine before or since, including. I literally raised millions of hundreds of thousands and millions of dollars.
00;06;26;27 - 00;06;28;27
John Wood Jr.
I was like ten grand, you know,
00;06;28;27 - 00;06;30;06
John Wood Jr.
in that race. Yeah.
00;06;30;06 - 00;06;36;13
John Wood Jr.
I basically ran as a hope and changed Republican. I ran a very bipartisan campaign. My, my my,
00;06;36;13 - 00;06;39;03
John Wood Jr.
team was very bipartisan. And,
00;06;39;03 - 00;06;52;19
John Wood Jr.
I tried to bring that sort of fraternal spirit to the Republican Party on an institutional level. I was elected, second vice chairman of the Republican Party of Los Angeles County,
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John Wood Jr.
in 2015.
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John Wood Jr.
Interestingly, the,
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John Wood Jr.
say I'm already tipping into the to do a longer version of the story here. Interestingly, the LA County GOP is actually the biggest county Republican Party in America. But it doesn't matter because it's still four times smaller than the LA County Democratic Party. So, you know, we still that we still rarely win anything.
00;07;15;12 - 00;07;16;01
John Wood Jr.
But,
00;07;16;01 - 00;07;17;12
John Wood Jr.
you know, I had,
00;07;17;12 - 00;07;28;10
John Wood Jr.
you know, I wanted to see a politics where we actually had reasonably friendly relationships with the other side, where we could come together and have debates and discussions in front of the community, still compete,
00;07;28;10 - 00;07;28;14
John Wood Jr.
be.
00;07;28;14 - 00;07;32;16
Wilk Wilkinson
Reasonable and uncivil back and forth and being able to actually,
00;07;32;16 - 00;07;33;14
Wilk Wilkinson
talk.
00;07;33;17 - 00;07;44;19
John Wood Jr.
Yeah. You know, sort of emphasizing the idea that, like, hey, you know, we're all Angelinos here. We want what's best for, for the city, for and for the state and for the country and so forth. And,
00;07;44;19 - 00;07;51;11
John Wood Jr.
what wound up happening was I wound up basically being threatened with the end of my career,
00;07;51;11 - 00;07;54;06
John Wood Jr.
for being too friendly with the wrong Republicans.
00;07;54;06 - 00;08;04;14
John Wood Jr.
I couldn't even get far enough to to try and bridge the gap between Republicans and Democrats, because what had happened at the time was that the Republican Party,
00;08;04;14 - 00;08;22;18
John Wood Jr.
sort of nationally, but definitely in California, was sort of torn in this internal scene in the Civil War between sort of the old guard establishment and conservative factions, on the one hand, versus the insurgent Ron Paul libertarian wing on the other hand.
00;08;22;20 - 00;08;35;29
John Wood Jr.
And I sort of got caught being friends with both sides and having people tell me, no, you can't do that. You know, you got to pick one or the other. If not, you know, you're going to make enemies out of the people who were your friends. And,
00;08;35;29 - 00;08;49;02
John Wood Jr.
I just didn't want to play that sort of game. All of this was kind of before Trump came along, when Trump came along, you know, for myself, he just had a breed of politics that I just had a very difficult time, you know, sort of getting.
00;08;49;05 - 00;08;49;21
Wilk Wilkinson
Myself.
00;08;49;22 - 00;08;51;02
John Wood Jr.
Via his approach.
00;08;51;02 - 00;08;58;08
John Wood Jr.
But even before Trump came along, I sort of realized that, like, hey, my my philosophical disposition,
00;08;58;08 - 00;09;00;05
John Wood Jr.
is not very welcome here.
00;09;00;05 - 00;09;06;22
John Wood Jr.
In the GOP, at least on this institutional level. I mean, it was different if I'm talking to just regular Republicans in the neighborhood, you know,
00;09;06;22 - 00;09;09;08
John Wood Jr.
and he's very popular with, with Republican,
00;09;09;08 - 00;09;16;14
John Wood Jr.
voters and just ordinary folks who wanted something better for, for the country and for their for their communities.
00;09;16;16 - 00;09;18;11
John Wood Jr.
And but. Yeah, but,
00;09;18;11 - 00;09;34;05
John Wood Jr.
I realized I needed to find another way. And so I tried to launch actually built a digital media network way back then. This was like 2017. That was meant to be sort of like The Young Turks or the Daily Wire, with a couple differences. One, it was meant to be,
00;09;34;05 - 00;09;35;07
John Wood Jr.
cross Partizan,
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John Wood Jr.
bring together people who disagreed about politics, but who agreed about how we ought to be treating each other and politics.
00;09;41;12 - 00;10;05;27
John Wood Jr.
And two, it was meant to jump off the screen. It was meant to be something that would build sort of a cross partizan cross cultural audience that could lead to people actually engaging with each other and physical reality on the local community level. And so I tried to do that. I wound up getting hit with a cease and desist letter from a multibillion dollar company that didn't like the fact that the name of our network was a little bit close to the name of their company, even though,
00;10;05;27 - 00;10;11;14
John Wood Jr.
we were dealing with news and information, they were dealing with baseball hats and basketball jerseys, whatnot.
00;10;11;17 - 00;10;12;01
John Wood Jr.
And,
00;10;12;01 - 00;10;14;24
John Wood Jr.
but then a friend of mine,
00;10;14;24 - 00;10;19;09
John Wood Jr.
who I had met through an organization that you're familiar with called No Labels,
00;10;19;09 - 00;10;23;27
John Wood Jr.
but a friend of mine, by the name of Luke Phillips,
00;10;23;27 - 00;10;28;01
John Wood Jr.
introduced me to or turned me on to the existence of this group,
00;10;28;01 - 00;10;30;22
John Wood Jr.
then called Better Angels. And I looked at,
00;10;30;22 - 00;10;31;21
John Wood Jr.
Better Angels,
00;10;31;21 - 00;10;32;17
John Wood Jr.
online.
00;10;32;17 - 00;10;38;26
John Wood Jr.
And I got really excited because I thought, Holy cow. You know, these people have exactly my philosophy and on.
00;10;38;27 - 00;10;40;06
Wilk Wilkinson
The same track. Yep.
00;10;40;10 - 00;10;44;08
John Wood Jr.
On on the same track. And they were doing the sort of on the ground,
00;10;44;08 - 00;10;46;04
John Wood Jr.
in-person sort of event,
00;10;46;04 - 00;10;59;11
John Wood Jr.
event building. This is the workshop ups and so forth, bringing together red and blue. They were already doing the things on the ground that I thought a media network could lead to. But what I noticed at the time was that they had,
00;10;59;11 - 00;11;02;24
John Wood Jr.
they had a Facebook page, which was sort of barren and abandoned.
00;11;02;24 - 00;11;06;28
John Wood Jr.
They had a website that was text heavy and pixelated.
00;11;06;28 - 00;11;07;14
John Wood Jr.
They had,
00;11;07;14 - 00;11;19;22
John Wood Jr.
a, a YouTube channel with a couple of nice clips, but nothing much else going on. They basically had no digital media strategy, and I had just spent a year trying to build up a digital media strategy,
00;11;19;22 - 00;11;22;04
John Wood Jr.
with the exact same philosophy in mind.
00;11;22;04 - 00;11;26;08
John Wood Jr.
And so I drove down with my friend Luke,
00;11;26;08 - 00;11;32;22
John Wood Jr.
to sit in on a workshop in San Diego, drove from L.A. to San Diego, just so happened that,
00;11;32;22 - 00;11;35;07
John Wood Jr.
the two of the founders of the organization,
00;11;35;07 - 00;11;39;20
John Wood Jr.
were there Bill Doherty, who was moderating, and David Blankenhorn,
00;11;39;20 - 00;11;46;25
John Wood Jr.
who was the founding, of course, was and is president of Better Now, Braver Angels.
00;11;46;27 - 00;11;56;23
John Wood Jr.
Another funny thing about that workshop, though, there's an old fellow sitting in the corner. He didn't participate in the workshop, but there was an old fellow sitting in the corner holding a guitar.
00;11;56;23 - 00;12;08;00
John Wood Jr.
The whole time, just wearing kind of a friendly smile on his face. And at the end of the workshop, which keep in mind, Wilk, I don't know if he's ever done one of these red blue workshops was a seven, seven, eight hour affair.
00;12;08;03 - 00;12;26;03
John Wood Jr.
So at the end of it, this this, this old fellow, he gets up and after we're all fairly exhausted, you know, after this long workshop, he starts strumming the guitar to start singing This land is Your land. This land is, from New York Island. That,
00;12;26;03 - 00;12;30;22
John Wood Jr.
And, you know, he sounds pretty good, but after about eight minutes of that, I was just like, okay, I'm tired.
00;12;30;22 - 00;12;44;01
John Wood Jr.
I'm ready to go. Can anybody ask this fella to, you know, take, take five. And then at the end of a David, like an hour comes and he puts his arm around the guy. He says, for all the young folks here who don't recognize them, I just want to,
00;12;44;01 - 00;12;47;15
John Wood Jr.
introduce you all to my good friend Peter Yarrow of Peter, Paul and Mary.
00;12;47;15 - 00;12;48;01
John Wood Jr.
And I was like,
00;12;48;01 - 00;12;52;19
John Wood Jr.
oh, that's why you got to give him ten minutes to play the song, you know?
00;12;52;19 - 00;12;53;13
Wilk Wilkinson
Right, right, right.
00;12;53;14 - 00;12;58;01
John Wood Jr.
Well, but yeah. So I met Peter Yarrow there too, who of course is amazing. And,
00;12;58;01 - 00;13;04;08
John Wood Jr.
yeah. So, you know, I brought this media network idea to to Better Angels, to David Blankenhorn and,
00;13;04;08 - 00;13;06;01
John Wood Jr.
and,
00;13;06;01 - 00;13;11;25
John Wood Jr.
he got back to me a few weeks later and he said, John, he said, I like your media network idea.
00;13;11;25 - 00;13;12;10
John Wood Jr.
I want,
00;13;12;10 - 00;13;13;02
John Wood Jr.
I want to get behind it.
00;13;13;02 - 00;13;14;29
John Wood Jr.
I want to hire you to build it.
00;13;14;29 - 00;13;29;29
John Wood Jr.
He said. But more than that, he said, I looked into you, looked into your background. You said, I want to get behind your voice. I want to get behind your pin. I know what you've done. I know what you stand for. I want better angels to be a platform for you to speak to America on race and polarization.
00;13;29;29 - 00;13;34;04
John Wood Jr.
Because I think the country needs your voice. And the thing about Wilk is that I had been,
00;13;34;04 - 00;13;42;22
John Wood Jr.
you know, active as an activist for, for this kind of reconciliation politics for literally in one form or fashion or another.
00;13;42;22 - 00;13;51;04
John Wood Jr.
You could say, since I was 15 years old and I was like, you know, 30 out of been just turning 31 at that time.
00;13;51;07 - 00;14;09;07
John Wood Jr.
And I never made any money doing any of that, you know, and, you know, stacking part time jobs. Even when I was running for office and when I was working for the for the Republican Party, that was actually a glorified volunteer position, you know, you should get all you still puts you in the center of a lot of people's, a lot of people's, grief.
00;14;09;07 - 00;14;09;25
John Wood Jr.
And,
00;14;09;25 - 00;14;13;03
John Wood Jr.
so, yeah, I mean, it was sort of my big, my big break.
00;14;13;03 - 00;14;25;23
John Wood Jr.
And I just remember it being just a deeply meaningful moment of gratitude for me. And then the next thing David Blankenhorn said was, the only problem is, is we don't have any money. Yeah, of course you don't. Of course. You know,
00;14;25;23 - 00;14;35;26
John Wood Jr.
he said, but he said, if you if you volunteer with us for a while, he said, we can get some fundraising, together and we'll put will, you know, we'll go to the, we'll shake the tin cup at the right people.
00;14;35;26 - 00;14;41;17
John Wood Jr.
And, and I bet we can put together the money to get you hired. And, and ultimately that basically happened. And so,
00;14;41;17 - 00;14;43;28
John Wood Jr.
yeah, I, I so I pretty much gave you,
00;14;43;28 - 00;14;49;17
John Wood Jr.
one of the longer versions of the story Wilk, But I felt like you deserve the Odyssey, you know?
00;14;49;18 - 00;15;07;22
Wilk Wilkinson
And that's good because I want the listeners to have that. And there's there's so much there, John, that I want to unpack and a couple of things that I want to touch on, but then I want to, you know, and I want to use those things to dive into kind of where the direction I was thinking that I want this conversation to go.
00;15;07;22 - 00;15;28;02
Wilk Wilkinson
So, so first of all, thank you very much for that rendition, even though it was a longer one. It brings so much clarity to, you know, how this, this digital thing got tied to better and now braver angels and that's awesome. So thank you for that. So so I want to go back to, you know, a couple of things you said there, John,
00;15;28;02 - 00;15;39;21
Wilk Wilkinson
those different awakenings that you had the you know, first of all, you know, your intention is to to really be, you know, you're leaning in on the on the Barack Obama,
00;15;39;21 - 00;15;45;07
Wilk Wilkinson
you know, campaign that wave you want to bring conservatives to that.
00;15;45;09 - 00;15;50;14
Wilk Wilkinson
And, and in doing so, and this is what I think way too many people
00;15;50;14 - 00;16;11;20
Wilk Wilkinson
are afraid to do today. In doing so, you actually diving into conservatism to understand them better, to see how we can bring people together now, people are just far, too, far too quick and and eager to attack versus learn. And I think that's very unfortunate.
00;16;11;23 - 00;16;12;13
John Wood Jr.
Right.
00;16;12;15 - 00;16;44;11
Wilk Wilkinson
We have people who are less interested in civility and unity than they are about this, like tribalism and polarization and that's one thing I want to get back to because you talked about being, you know, starting this at a very young age and really realizing that, you know, I would rather bring people together than tear people apart. And when you dove into conservatism and started to see we I actually relate to this.
00;16;44;16 - 00;17;10;29
Wilk Wilkinson
I relate to this, I relate to this. It's something that I've been talking about so much lately. John, is is, as we find out more about those people that we oppose or supposedly oppose or that are in that other tribe. Now all of a sudden, we're starting to realize, we're starting to realize, well, I do kind of relate to that or or or I can I can see where they're coming from on that.
00;17;11;01 - 00;17;34;10
Wilk Wilkinson
So that whole, that whole dynamic. And I think a lot of people are just maybe afraid, right? Because like you said, the other thing that you that that other awakening that you had in there was as soon as you got in and found out, okay, maybe I am a Republican. And then you dive into Republican politics and now you've got two different factions of the Republican side that are saying, well, you can't be friends with him.
00;17;34;16 - 00;18;09;10
Wilk Wilkinson
You can't be friends with them. And now if you're going to spend your time with them, you're surely not going to spend time with us. So that's that's weird, but way too many, way too many tribalistic mentalities have been fracturing our politics for too long. That now really nothing is getting done. But now is where in my mind, if we don't, as a nation, as a people, start to focus on depolarization.
00;18;10;08 - 00;18;35;23
Wilk Wilkinson
Polarization will wipe us out. In my opinion, John, and you can tell me where you stand on this. I think polarization is one of the, if not the only existential threats that we face as a nation. There's a lot of people that use that word. We hear it way too much nowadays. It's one of the most overused phrases that I, I can think of hearing lately is this is an existential threat.
00;18;35;23 - 00;18;41;20
Wilk Wilkinson
That's an existential threat. You know, Donald Trump is an existential threat. The Democrats are an existential threat. The,
00;18;41;20 - 00;19;04;02
Wilk Wilkinson
you know, the woke mob is an existential threat. It's the most overused thing in the world. But I think, personally, the only real existential threat we face is polarization. And that is now leading to and this is this is just a symptom or a byproduct of that, but that institutional distrust, people no longer trust, you know?
00;19;04;04 - 00;19;12;10
Wilk Wilkinson
Well, very seldom did people, not in my lifetime. Today, I know a lot of people that trusted politicians, but, I mean, they don't trust the politics.
00;19;12;10 - 00;19;13;24
John Wood Jr.
It's getting worse and worse and.
00;19;13;27 - 00;19;18;25
Wilk Wilkinson
Right. So talk about that for me, John. What what are your thoughts on that?
00;19;18;28 - 00;19;39;04
John Wood Jr.
Well, you know, I'm I'm where you are on this. I mean, you know, the sort of a quick way I say it is to say that, you know, polarization is is the one problem that ensures that all other problems will not be solved. You know, it really doesn't matter what the issue is.
00;19;39;04 - 00;19;49;13
John Wood Jr.
If it can be solved, you know, you're going to have your best chance of solving it by marshaling the full capacity, talents, resources,
00;19;49;13 - 00;19;52;07
John Wood Jr.
of the American people and putting that to bear on the problem.
00;19;52;07 - 00;19;53;22
John Wood Jr.
But you can only do that,
00;19;53;22 - 00;19;56;12
John Wood Jr.
with a culture of trust that can yield,
00;19;56;12 - 00;20;02;22
John Wood Jr.
yield some degree of unity. You know, in the absence of that, what you have,
00;20;02;22 - 00;20;27;21
John Wood Jr.
are people who take the rules of society and the institutions of society and essentially weaponize them for the purposes of partizan and tribal gain, because they don't see themselves as being engaged in, engaged in a competitive process that's still supposed to yield progress for the common good.
00;20;27;23 - 00;20;30;19
John Wood Jr.
You know, even if they don't agree with an individual,
00;20;30;19 - 00;20;50;29
John Wood Jr.
political or legislative outcome, but rather the rules and the institutions of society themselves are really only weapons and tools that are being used to vanquish an enemy while speaking sort of the superficial language of, you know, sharing, sharing a community, sharing a country together. Right? Right.
00;20;50;29 - 00;20;51;14
John Wood Jr.
And,
00;20;51;14 - 00;20;53;18
John Wood Jr.
you know, societies have fallen,
00;20;53;18 - 00;20;55;28
John Wood Jr.
this way in, in the past.
00;20;55;28 - 00;21;02;01
John Wood Jr.
You have to have a commitment to something bigger than yourself, something that transcends yourself. You know,
00;21;02;01 - 00;21;13;03
John Wood Jr.
the idea of a shared nation, of our having a shared destiny as a as a people, that should be something that's big enough for us to say, okay, this is bigger than our differences. You know,
00;21;13;03 - 00;21;23;11
John Wood Jr.
even if I disagree with you, even if I disagree with you vehemently, I should have some enough humility to be able to accept the fact that there's a process by which we engage in our disagreements.
00;21;23;11 - 00;21;30;03
John Wood Jr.
And if I lose this round, well, I've got to come back with better arguments the next time. The next time around. Right.
00;21;30;03 - 00;21;37;16
John Wood Jr.
In that at the end of the day, you know, the thing that allows us to hold society together isn't so much, you know,
00;21;37;16 - 00;21;43;23
John Wood Jr.
I mean, this is this is just the ultimate cliche, but it isn't so much whether I win or lose this, this round or the next.
00;21;43;23 - 00;21;46;12
John Wood Jr.
It's literally how we play the game, right?
00;21;46;12 - 00;21;59;20
John Wood Jr.
Because life is not just about the bills that are passed through through Congress. It's a very small piece of our actual existence. Right? The laws matter, but it's about our ability to run schools together, to run neighborhoods together, to literally.
00;21;59;22 - 00;22;01;20
Wilk Wilkinson
Got to play for the long game.
00;22;01;22 - 00;22;02;10
John Wood Jr.
Yeah.
00;22;02;12 - 00;22;09;14
Wilk Wilkinson
And people are too focused on what's right in front of their nose, and they aren't thinking about the long game anymore.
00;22;09;17 - 00;22;15;29
John Wood Jr.
That's right, that's right. So you can take a look at you can break it down sort of institution by, by,
00;22;15;29 - 00;22;29;15
John Wood Jr.
institution. I mean, you know, it used to be like with the courts, you know, Supreme Court nominees would you wouldn't even really have to vote on them in the, in the Senate. It was just sort of taken for granted that like, hey, you know, presidents got the prerogative to pick his nominee.
00;22;29;15 - 00;22;45;25
John Wood Jr.
The Senate will advise and consent. But really this is kind of a formality. They'll say, hey, is this guy a serial killer? No. Okay, well, wait, let them let him go. Now. Now, you know, these are these are heated debates, and you have people, you know, pushing forward, sort of, you know,
00;22;45;25 - 00;22;49;25
John Wood Jr.
tech tricks and tactics and parliamentary maneuvers.
00;22;49;25 - 00;23;24;00
John Wood Jr.
You've got, you know, until finally gets a situation where, you know, Mitch McConnell says we're not even going to consider, Democratic nominee during this, this cycle. And Democrats come back and say, well, hey, let's let's just pack the court, you know, and expand the number of justices indefinitely. And it would it becomes as a race to the bottom, you know, and it's the same thing, of course, you know, in a different context with the, with the institution of, of media, you know, you've got you've got one side who will sort of, you know, I mean, from, from my vantage point, you know, talk about like mostly peaceful protests and then you've got, you
00;23;24;00 - 00;23;51;03
John Wood Jr.
know, Tucker Carlson sort of coming back around and saying like, well, you know, January 6th wasn't that bad because these people were peaceful, even though these people were violent, and everybody's trying to give their side of the story without just conceding the fact that we've just got bullshit on all sides. You know? Right, right. And, you know, even if you think that 70% of the problem is the other side or 80 or 90%, you still have 100% responsibility to own up for whatever your part in the mess is.
00;23;51;05 - 00;23;53;11
Wilk Wilkinson
Oh, yeah, it's too much. What about ism?
00;23;53;14 - 00;23;55;27
John Wood Jr.
Too much? What about it's gotta be.
00;23;56;00 - 00;24;13;23
Wilk Wilkinson
Gotten to be my tribe. Is my tribe and I am going to stick with them come hell or high water. Your tribe is your tribe. And I am going to hate your tribe. Come hell or high water. And every time somebody tries to bring up something that my tribe did, I'm going to just start throwing out. What about, what about, what about.
00;24;13;25 - 00;24;56;24
Wilk Wilkinson
And then that kind of garbage. John is how we got here, right? Because now everybody is focused so much on the evil deeds that that tribe did, that they forget the humanity in those people that make up that tribe. They forget the fact that, you know, kind of going back to what we were saying earlier, there's a lot of stuff that we would agree on, you know, like you being a, you know, a Democrat activist and then starting to learn about the conservative Republican and who the conservative Republican is.
00;24;56;24 - 00;25;15;22
Wilk Wilkinson
And then all of a sudden, you realize I've got a lot more in common with these folks tonight than I ever imagined. You know, once people get so stuck in that tribal mentality and that what about ism stuff? They start to lose focus on anything good that that side possibly could have, you know, going on with them.
00;25;15;25 - 00;25;52;14
Wilk Wilkinson
And then all of a sudden, every single thing that is said about that other tribe, they're an extremist. They're there are this there are that, you know, this is all they do. And now all the people that are following said mouthpieces on Twitter or, you know, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, whatever. All they see, all they see from the people that they listen to is the negative that they're throwing out about the other side.
00;25;52;16 - 00;26;07;28
Wilk Wilkinson
It's shut them down. It puts out that wall of separation. They no longer even have a inkling in their mind that that person could be, you know, could have 70, 80, 90%,
00;26;07;28 - 00;26;23;24
Wilk Wilkinson
of of their life values, of their core values in common. Right? They are solely focused on the few things that separate them. And then you have mouthpieces that keep that wall of separation up.
00;26;23;27 - 00;26;38;09
John Wood Jr.
That that's that's that's correct. And so, you know, the power, of course, of the experiences that we're that we're able to cultivate and braver angels is that it allows people to see each other up close enough and in a
00;26;38;09 - 00;26;41;26
John Wood Jr.
hospitable enough context to be able to actually,
00;26;41;26 - 00;26;49;08
John Wood Jr.
sort of reawaken ourselves to that deeper human familiarity that allows us to sort of see the fact that, like, okay, our politics are are different.
00;26;49;08 - 00;27;07;20
John Wood Jr.
But you know what? There's real core human, human values here that we actually have in common. And even if our politics are very different, you have experiences that I can relate to as a human being, which can allow me to see you as not just an alien from another planet, not just sort of just sort of an abstract threat in the form of a stereotype.
00;27;07;20 - 00;27;23;01
John Wood Jr.
And so that's how what Brave Angels does is able to transcend that. Now, the thing that we face as an obstacle is not just the fact that, you know, there is this there is this aspect to human nature that is prone to,
00;27;23;01 - 00;27;25;21
John Wood Jr.
prone to dissension, prone to conflict.
00;27;25;21 - 00;27;27;24
John Wood Jr.
You know, I mean, the Bible identifies,
00;27;27;24 - 00;27;37;13
John Wood Jr.
dissension as, as a work of the flesh, you know, this this tendency towards towards hatred and malice and distrust and so forth.
00;27;37;16 - 00;27;45;07
John Wood Jr.
But the fact that that becomes artificially amplified by the incentive structure,
00;27;45;07 - 00;28;03;06
John Wood Jr.
that rewards that way of being in our institutions, that's really the thing that we come up against, because you have that tendency in people to begin with. It's just something that we know about human beings and we all have to work on that. But then that becomes a pathway towards wealth, towards ratings, towards political power.
00;28;03;09 - 00;28;26;09
John Wood Jr.
You know, it becomes basically a sort of, you know, you hear the word system a lot these days, but it's it's a it's a system. There's a polarization system. And the way it works in a nutshell is that, you know, you've got the media entities who once upon a time they tried to speak to all Americans, but then at a certain point, they realized that the best way to achieve profitability is to capture your share of the market.
00;28;26;11 - 00;28;38;17
John Wood Jr.
So, you know, if you're a fox, you're going to try and capture conservatives. If you're MSNBC, you're going to try and capture progressives and so forth. And so you just repeat a one sided narrative that doesn't have any,
00;28;38;17 - 00;28;47;29
John Wood Jr.
any internal motivation to take into account whatever the other side of the issue is. And so you just whip people up to the angry and angrier, and that becomes your market share.
00;28;48;06 - 00;29;03;28
John Wood Jr.
When you whip people up like that, it feeds into a political system where the two parties, you know, used to be the the parties would try and speak to the broadest cross-section of America that that they could. But now they have the exact same business model as the media. Basically,
00;29;03;28 - 00;29;06;26
John Wood Jr.
where, you know, in order for them to, you know,
00;29;06;26 - 00;29;19;26
John Wood Jr.
to be able to achieve that 50 plus one, you know, they really just want to just get a lock of a vice grip, hold on a certain ideological base of one side of the country or the other.
00;29;19;28 - 00;29;44;02
John Wood Jr.
And what winds up happening is all the way down to the level of individual congressmen. You have people who really only need to appeal to 8 or 10% of voters in their district, because those voters are leveraged in the primary. So it's like, okay, I've got 100% of people in my district, but I don't really have to worry about 90% of them, because if I can win that activist 10%, they'll get me the nomination if they give me the nomination.
00;29;44;02 - 00;29;47;26
John Wood Jr.
If I'm in the right district, I'll automatically get the rest of.
00;29;47;28 - 00;29;48;10
Wilk Wilkinson
The shoe.
00;29;48;10 - 00;30;06;12
John Wood Jr.
In exact. I'm almost a shoo in at that point. And so when I get to office, I don't have any incentive to actually get to know these Democrats or get to know these Republicans, whoever the folks are on the other side, I don't have any incentive to figure things out. You know, I just need to get in there and, and, and, and make people as angry as possible.
00;30;06;12 - 00;30;34;23
John Wood Jr.
So my folks back home can look at me as a fighter and send me back here again, you know, in the next, in the next term. Right? Right. And so it just continues in that vicious loop and so anytime you have short term gains that are in conflict with long term, with, with long term progress, long term peace and prosperity, you've got a really difficult problem because it means that people are just not going to see that far down the road.
00;30;34;23 - 00;30;41;29
John Wood Jr.
Will they have the hardest time understanding what's really good for them, because everything is motivating them not to see it.
00;30;42;02 - 00;31;06;04
Wilk Wilkinson
Right? Yeah. No, it's it's I call it that fog model. Right. Fear, outrage, grievance. It's a proven model that fear, outrage and grievance. You keep people scared, you keep people outrage. You keep people in some kind of grievance class, keeping them somehow feeling like they're a victim, but then keep on giving them that little, that little incentive to keep on coming back for more, because we're going to give you the answer.
00;31;06;06 - 00;31;43;08
Wilk Wilkinson
But they don't want to actually give you an answer. They want you to give the and they they're giving you this answer that keeps you right on the edge, right. And keeps you coming back. Something I've been thinking a lot about John lately is, is, you know, in business and I've been in business for several years. Business we always we need to find the root cause, like root cause, problem solving is one of these things that that, you know, we have to, you know, when we have a, when we have an economic incentive, when we have a financial incentive to get something done, get something fixed right away, we look for the root cause,
00;31;43;10 - 00;32;06;24
Wilk Wilkinson
look for the root cause, attack the root cause, get it fixed, and move on to the next problem. I don't do that in politics anymore. They do enough to keep that short game going. And if they don't, if they if they stay close, I might not be explaining this the right way. But if they keep that short game hot, they keep that short game active, right?
00;32;06;29 - 00;32;14;08
Wilk Wilkinson
Keep people engaged in that short game. They don't they can just kind of not worry about that long game, but they can find it.
00;32;14;10 - 00;32;15;00
John Wood Jr.
Yeah.
00;32;15;03 - 00;32;16;01
Wilk Wilkinson
Yeah.
00;32;16;03 - 00;32;49;23
John Wood Jr.
You're absolutely right. You're absolutely right. By the way. Interesting thing about so many politicians, and this is especially true for members of Congress, is that, interestingly enough, they're not even in a position to really be able to sort of closely investigate some of those root causes, even if they tried. And what I mean by that is that in addition to all of the other incentives that, you know, just we just talked about, you know, raising, raising money and interacting with the media is such an overwhelming part of what they actually do in their positions.
00;32;49;23 - 00;33;12;10
John Wood Jr.
I mean, theoretically, they're in there looking at the fine points of policy, engaging in educated negotiations with their colleagues. In office and arriving at thoughtful, measured decisions and compromises about the bills that they're going to support. But in practice, what happens is the day they get elected, they start fundraising for the next election.
00;33;12;10 - 00;33;13;20
Wilk Wilkinson
Fundraising campaign for.
00;33;13;23 - 00;33;28;17
John Wood Jr.
Veterans. And basically they wind up spending a large majority of their time fundraising for the next election and trying to get on cable news to get them to get their message out. And of course, in order to get on cable news, you know, they're gonna have a much better chance of getting getting,
00;33;28;17 - 00;33;29;04
John Wood Jr.
getting,
00;33;29;04 - 00;33;31;12
John Wood Jr.
airtime from CNN and whatnot.
00;33;31;15 - 00;33;38;05
John Wood Jr.
If they're actively talking smack about, you know, whatever the other side is engaging and the Partizan in the Partizan,
00;33;38;05 - 00;33;39;01
John Wood Jr.
warfare.
00;33;39;03 - 00;33;42;20
Wilk Wilkinson
Hyperbolic toxicity keeps the keeps the cameras on.
00;33;42;23 - 00;33;54;25
John Wood Jr.
And in addition to that, and in addition to that, because they don't have time to study the issues, they've got staffers and all that. But the people who are in a position to really study the issues,
00;33;54;25 - 00;34;02;23
John Wood Jr.
are the lobbyists, you know, the folks who you know, are sent there by, you know, corporations and, you know, you got your unions and your other folks,
00;34;02;23 - 00;34;04;09
John Wood Jr.
with money and resources,
00;34;04;09 - 00;34;12;03
John Wood Jr.
who send folks into Washington basically to be able to say, hey, you know, you guys are in a position to vote on this piece of legislation.
00;34;12;03 - 00;34;15;07
John Wood Jr.
We know that you don't have time to do this homework. It's okay. We've done it for you.
00;34;15;08 - 00;34;16;27
Wilk Wilkinson
We've done it for you. Right?
00;34;17;01 - 00;34;38;04
John Wood Jr.
So let's do it. Exactly. So while they're engaging this big dog and pony show for the American people, you know, getting us all mad at each other over, you know, over this issue or that or that, that or the third, you know, the actual meaningful work of looking at policy and generating policy outcomes as being done by folks who actually have a vested monetary interest.
00;34;38;09 - 00;34;49;09
John Wood Jr.
Oftentimes, you know, political interest in a certain in a certain outcome, and they wind up being the ones that actually give shape and substance to what goes into the sausage, you know.
00;34;49;09 - 00;34;50;16
Wilk Wilkinson
Oh, that's right, that's right.
00;34;50;18 - 00;35;14;01
John Wood Jr.
Yeah. So, so that's the system vet that we're dealing with. And those are the consequences of not having a, a culture and, and sort of, you know, a set of a set of norms in place whereby we're able to just thoughtfully sit down, respect and empathize and reason with each other, you know, and leave space for this whole other cancerous kind of kind of,
00;35;14;01 - 00;35;18;23
John Wood Jr.
what's the sort of, sort of this, this cancer is sort of like metabolism in the body
00;35;18;23 - 00;35;19;28
John Wood Jr.
politic,
00;35;19;28 - 00;35;28;16
John Wood Jr.
to, to, to, to, to fester in a way to where, you know, rather than being healthy, this, this, this toxic growth is just eating at us from the inside.
00;35;28;18 - 00;35;35;13
John Wood Jr.
Right. And, you know, and so many people think that that's just the way it's supposed to be. It is not the way it's supposed to be. And it doesn't.
00;35;35;16 - 00;35;35;29
Wilk Wilkinson
Have to.
00;35;35;29 - 00;35;36;20
John Wood Jr.
Be that way.
00;35;36;21 - 00;35;40;12
Wilk Wilkinson
It is absolutely not supposed to be that way. And for me,
00;35;40;12 - 00;35;58;09
Wilk Wilkinson
a couple of the reasons why, you know, I talk about my being a conservative and stuff like that. It's not that, you know, and I am certainly in no way one of those conservatives that walks, lobbies, lockstep thing in, you know, with, with the GOP or any particular politician and, and stuff.
00;35;58;09 - 00;36;26;29
Wilk Wilkinson
And I and I want people to get back to understanding that that there are several nuances throughout all political parties. It's just typically those that know the least say it the loudest, or they they are the most ornery, most bombastic, most hyperbolic, ornery people. They get most of the airplay. So, so when people think they know everything about every Republican or everything about every Democrat, they're they're very much cutting themselves short and they're cutting themselves short.
00;36;26;29 - 00;36;49;04
Wilk Wilkinson
They're cutting the other person short, and they're doing everybody involved in that, that mental transaction a huge disservice. But when when a government gets too big, it does nothing. Well, when, when, when the government is so big it invites corruption and so does that money. You know, that that lobbyist money,
00;36;49;04 - 00;36;53;02
Wilk Wilkinson
the the the campaign money, all of that stuff.
00;36;53;05 - 00;37;30;03
Wilk Wilkinson
It just brings us to a point where, okay, we know this system has its flaws still probably the best system that's ever been devised by man. But let's take this system back to a time when our government wasn't the the biggest thing in our life. Right? Well, take us back to a time where the government was a was this transparent entity running certain things in the background, but we really didn't need to know what was going on every single day.
00;37;30;10 - 00;37;51;28
Wilk Wilkinson
We didn't need a 24 hour news cycle. You know, blown us up every single day. You know, that the government was supposed to be the small, necessary entity, but so small that it was just back there in the background of our lives. And and politics didn't have to be part of our core identity, and it didn't have to get everybody worked up.
00;37;52;02 - 00;38;27;15
Wilk Wilkinson
And then we just live like neighbors. You know, maybe that's my utopia, John. But that's what I want back. I want it back to where we don't have to think about politics every single day. We don't have to have this 24 hour news cycle punching this garbage down our throat constantly. That's why I love braver angels. I love what we do it braver angels, because we're trying to show people that, hey, we don't need to listen to and be totally consumed by all these outrage entrepreneurs and grievance grifters out there.
00;38;27;20 - 00;38;51;21
Wilk Wilkinson
We can talk to our neighbors. We can have a meaningful conversation about things that really mean a lot to us, and not constantly be outraged by something that's going on in DC or, you know, in some state far, far away. Focus on what's close. Focus on what's right with your life and work from the inside out.
00;38;51;24 - 00;38;58;20
John Wood Jr.
Yeah, yeah, well, I'm with you. We see it so similarly. And to to talk about all this from a, from a bit of a conservative,
00;38;58;20 - 00;39;00;27
John Wood Jr.
vantage point for, for a moment.
00;39;00;27 - 00;39;05;26
John Wood Jr.
I forget who said this, but somebody said something along the lines of,
00;39;05;26 - 00;39;10;22
John Wood Jr.
the bureaucracy must expand to meet the expanding needs of the expanding bureaucracy.
00;39;10;25 - 00;39;27;06
John Wood Jr.
You know, I which is just to say that, you know. Yeah, government winds up taking on a life of its own, and it's, it's it's very closely related to this larger problem of polarization, because really what we're experiencing is a decline in community in America.
00;39;27;06 - 00;39;28;06
Wilk Wilkinson
That's right, that's right.
00;39;28;06 - 00;39;28;20
John Wood Jr.
And,
00;39;28;20 - 00;39;46;07
John Wood Jr.
there's a way in which government sort of seeks to expand to solve, to solve all of our problems. But when it does so, it does so through means and mechanisms that are, you know, I mean, it's important to say, you know, government is is run by actual human beings. That allows people to sometimes we talk about government as if it's run by robots.
00;39;46;07 - 00;40;06;27
John Wood Jr.
It's, you know, it's folks like you and me, but because they exist in an apparatus that is abstract from community, that's not really sort of in community. So particularly on the federal level, in the same way it's decision making by people, thousands of, you know, hundreds and thousands of miles away from the communities that they're impacting. You know, it tends to be,
00;40;06;27 - 00;40;08;08
John Wood Jr.
abstracted,
00;40;08;08 - 00;40;13;07
John Wood Jr.
from the actual concerns of the community and therefore,
00;40;13;07 - 00;40;19;06
John Wood Jr.
imposing one size fits all solutions in ways that really could only work if you knew the community up close.
00;40;19;06 - 00;40;24;11
John Wood Jr.
Right. And understand, but the other side of that coin, though, Wilk,
00;40;24;11 - 00;40;42;04
John Wood Jr.
for for conservatives to keep in mind is. Yes, on the one hand, the growth of government has a way of impeding on the culture of community and manners that make it, you know, less able for it, make us less able to have relationships with each other because we've outsourced a lot of that to the state.
00;40;42;04 - 00;40;45;16
John Wood Jr.
On the other hand, though, I would argue that,
00;40;45;16 - 00;41;03;12
John Wood Jr.
many of us conservatives need to look in the mirror because if we are going to advocate for a way of doing politics that stresses individual initiative and communities making their own decisions, well, we actually have to live that life. And I think a lot of what's happened with the church, I think a lot of what's happened with folks who,
00;41;03;12 - 00;41;10;17
John Wood Jr.
you know, believe in individual liberty and community, sort of in theory, is that we don't always practice that.
00;41;10;19 - 00;41;18;27
John Wood Jr.
And that leaves a certain void, you know, if you're not actively out there taking care of your neighbors, if you're not actively out there, you know, trying to,
00;41;18;27 - 00;41;24;21
John Wood Jr.
to, to to set a good example and mentor and support, you know, kids who, kids who,
00;41;24;21 - 00;41;26;08
John Wood Jr.
are fatherless,
00;41;26;08 - 00;41;29;29
John Wood Jr.
orphans and widows to use the, to use sort of the biblical terminology.
00;41;29;29 - 00;41;53;27
John Wood Jr.
But if you're not actively out there trying to trying to care for the poor, provide opportunity and otherwise strengthen the community yourself, you know? Well, of course the state is going to expand to fill that void. And so there's a way in which government pushes community out, but there's also a way in which our own apathy towards each other invites the government in to, to to grow and to fill that fill that space, you know.
00;41;53;27 - 00;42;10;25
Wilk Wilkinson
Oh, that's absolutely right. I, I, I definitely agree with you. And, you know, that's that's why, you know, I talk so much about personal accountability and, and, and you know, better in the world by starting, you know, bettering us, bettering the world one attitude at a time. We have to get out there together.
00;42;10;25 - 00;42;17;20
Wilk Wilkinson
Well, we've got to better our ourselves first and then really, you know, be the change that you want to see in the world.
00;42;17;23 - 00;42;22;07
Wilk Wilkinson
You're right. I mean, if we aren't taking care of those who can't take care of themselves,
00;42;22;07 - 00;42;36;13
Wilk Wilkinson
then then we we just aren't doing the right thing as human beings. And and and there's, there's, there's just for too long, and I and I will I will kind of round us out with this, you know, just just that conservative viewpoint.
00;42;36;20 - 00;42;38;24
Wilk Wilkinson
For too long, I saw too many of,
00;42;38;24 - 00;42;56;06
Wilk Wilkinson
of of my fellow conservatives that just wanted to be left alone. They just, they just, you know, they didn't want anything to do with politics. They didn't want anything to do with but with, with what was going on in DC or in their local elections or anything. They just wanted to be left alone.
00;42;56;09 - 00;43;22;24
Wilk Wilkinson
They weren't really engaged until they became enraged. Right? Yeah. That's right. Yeah, that's and that's, that's kind of how, you know, and this could lead into another conversation, which I know we're running out of time together, John, but but yeah, that's that's how I see it. You know, the era of Trump and how we got Trump and and how we've got so much of what's going on now in the GOP is there were for way too long.
00;43;22;27 - 00;43;41;09
Wilk Wilkinson
There were all these people that they just didn't want to get engaged. And till they became enraged, once they became enraged, it was too late. And now that's taken on its its own, you know, its own life. And and I would contend that it's not necessarily a pretty one, but, John Wood it's been,
00;43;41;09 - 00;43;42;23
Wilk Wilkinson
What an incredible conversation.
00;43;42;27 - 00;43;43;26
Wilk Wilkinson
Round us out man,
00;43;44;04 - 00;43;45;13
John Wood Jr.
Yeah, absolutely,
00;43;45;13 - 00;43;46;04
John Wood Jr.
I encourage folks to
00;43;46;04 - 00;43;47;15
John Wood Jr.
register and to join us,
00;43;47;15 - 00;43;51;26
John Wood Jr.
if they are so moved and braver. Angels.org and,
00;43;51;26 - 00;44;00;11
John Wood Jr.
you want to follow me? Of course, you can find me at John R Wood Jr on Twitter and Instagram, Facebook, all that jazz and
00;44;00;11 - 00;44;08;29
John Wood Jr.
yeah, anybody who's listening to Derate The Hate, if you want to be a part of be a part of the movement to build a house United, come join us and Braver Angels.
00;44;09;02 - 00;44;16;15
Wilk Wilkinson
Yep. Absolutely. Thank you very much, John. I greatly appreciate all of that information will be in the show notes for this episode. And,
00;44;16;15 - 00;44;20;24
Wilk Wilkinson
yeah, as always, keep on doing everything you're doing to better the world. John, thank you very much.
00;44;20;24 - 00;44;40;15
Wilk Wilkinson
Friends. If there's anything in this episode that provided exceptional value to you, please make sure to hit that share button. Share it with your friends, share it far and wide. And of course, if you haven't done so already, be sure to subscribe right from our website so you can get the Direct The Hate podcast sent to your email inbox every week.
00;44;40;18 - 00;44;56;17
Wilk Wilkinson
So this is Wilke wrapping up for the week saying get out there. Be kind to one another. Be grateful for everything that you've got. And remember, it's up to you to make each and every day the day that you want it to be. If there is something that you would like to share with me, you can catch me on most social media platforms.
00;44;56;23 - 00;45;22;11
Wilk Wilkinson
Or you can email me directly. Wilk@WilksWorld.com. With that, my friends, I am going to back on out of here and we will catch you next week. Take care.
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