Send Wilk a text with your feedback!
This week, I’m joined by Nathan Stock, an international conflict-resolution practitioner with over two decades of field experience in some of the most divided places on earth. From living in Gaza during the Al-Aqsa Intifada, to supporting President Jimmy Carter’s peacemaking efforts, to building statewide anti-political-violence networks here in the U.S., Nathan brings a rare combination of lived insight and practical wisdom.
And he’s sounding a warning — not of doom, but of responsibility.
Who in your life thinks differently from you?
What would change if you committed — really committed — to understanding their origin story?
This episode is a reminder that depolarization isn’t someone else’s job. It’s the work of courageous citizens.
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/nathan.stock.56
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nathan-stock-7833912/
Share it with someone who cares about bridging divides.
Leave a review to help others discover the show.
And join us in bettering the world — one attitude at a time.
The world is a better place if we are better people. That begins with each of us as individuals. Be kind to one another. Be grateful for all you’ve got. Make every day the day that you want it to be!
Please follow The Derate The Hate podcast on:
Facebook, Instagram, Twitter(X) , YouTube
Subscribe to us wherever you enjoy your audio or from our site. Please leave us a rating and feedback on Apple podcasts or other platforms. You can share your thoughts or request Wilk for a speaking engagement on our contact page: DerateTheHate.com/Contact
The Derate The Hate podcast is proudly produced in collaboration with Braver Angels — America’s largest grassroots, cross-partisan organization working toward civic renewal and bridging partisan divides. Learn more: BraverAngels.org
Welcome to the Derate The Hate Podcast!
*The views expressed by Wilk, his guest hosts &/or guests on the Derate The Hate podcast are their own and should not be attributed to any organization they may otherwise be affiliated with.
[00:00:00:00] Wilk Wilkinson: I've talked to a lot of people doing important work in the depolarization space, but every now and then someone comes along with firsthand experience that snaps you awake. My guest today lived through violent conflict in Gaza, worked alongside other communities torn apart in the Middle East, and is now sounding the alarm about patterns he sees right here at home. This conversation might just be a wake up call. Stay with me. Welcome back, my friends, for the Derate the Hate podcast. I'm your host, Wilk Wilkinson, your blue collar sage calming outrage and helping to navigate a world divided by fog and those who would spread that fear, outrage and grievance. The D Rate the Hate podcast is proudly produced in collaboration with Braver Angels, America's largest grassroots cross. partisan organization working towards civic renewal. This podcast amplifies the mission that we share to foster a more respectful and united America where civic friendship thrives even when we disagree. Each week, through the power of story, conversation, and connection with incredible guests, we work to build bridges instead of barriers, not to change minds on the issues, but to change how we see one another when we differ. Because friends, it really is about bettering the world one attitude at a time. We did not create the hate, but together we can Derate the Hate. So be sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcast. Share it with a friend and visit BraverAngels.org to learn how you can get involved in the movement to bridge the partisan divide. Friends, I am so incredibly grateful that you have joined me for another powerful Derate the Hate episode. So let's get to it. Today's conversation is one that hits right in the center of why I do this work. I'm joined by someone who has spent more than 20 years in the trenches of conflict resolution. Not theoretical, not academic, but real world life and death work. Nathan Stock began his journey as a young English teacher in Gaza during the Al-Aqsa Intifada. He lived through helicopter gunships, firing missiles into neighborhoods. Suicide bombings just blocks from his home and families caught in the middle of violence. They never imagined was possible. And that experience shaped the trajectory of his life. How could it not? Since then, he's worked across the Middle East, supported former President Jimmy Carter's peacemaking efforts for nearly a decade, and spent the last five years leading anti-political violence networks here in the United States with the Carter Center. Today, he's helping Common Ground USA confront political violence right here in the state of Minnesota. Nathan brings a powerful message. The same human forces that fracture communities overseas can show up at home. If we're not paying attention. But we still have agency and we still have time to choose a different path. This is a conversation about human nature, trust, media consumption, and the small, everyday choices that either inflame or heal a society. It's rich, it's sobering, and it's filled with hope. Let's get to it with my friend Nathan Stock. Here we go. Nathan Stock, welcome to the Derate the Hate podcast, my friend. So good to see you.
[00:03:55:15] Nathan Stock: Hey Wilk, great to be with you. Thanks for having me.
[00:03:58:16] Wilk Wilkinson: it's great to see you again, Nathan. I, we met a little while back at a pledge signing done by a friend of ours, Shannon Watson. With, "Majority in the Middle" here in the state of Minnesota. And, that was the first time I got, got the opportunity to meet you and start to learn a little bit more about your work. And we've had a, had a few conversations since then, so wanted to bring what you do to the listeners and, real glad to have you here today, man.
[00:04:28:16] Nathan Stock: Yeah. It's great to be here.
[00:04:30:04] Wilk Wilkinson: so, Nathan, I want to start with, Kind of how you got into into this this depolarization business, the conflict resolution business. I know you work with the Carter Center for several years, and and, we're doing some teaching over in the middle, Middle East to, to kind of start that. So so that's the part that I want to start with. I want to bring that to the to the listeners first. And, you know, because it's always interesting to find out how people ended up in this space. And I think that's going to be a real important part of our story today.
[00:05:03:15] Nathan Stock: Yeah, I hear that. So, long, long time ago when I was 23 years old, back in 2000, I got a job as an English teacher in the Gaza Strip. So it's like, many lifetimes ago, you could still get in there on a US passport without fuss. And I was all excited about it. I was curious about the Middle East, didn't have any background in the region, but was interested in conflict resolution. I had heard, you know, there were conflicts in the Middle East. That's about all I knew. And so this nonprofit bought me a plane ticket and set me up in Gaza City. And I started to teach English through a this NGO. And a war broke out there six months later, in the fall of 2000 between Israelis and Palestinians. And I ended up living there through the next two years of that war. And that experience defined the through line of my career, because in the months before the fighting started, I'll never forget I was having dinner with a couple of American friends, young guys like me, and we talked about what the next war between Israelis and Palestinians would look like. We could we could see it coming. The peace process wasn't going so hot. You could just see the writing was on the wall. And yet when it actually happened and suddenly that September, there were Israeli helicopter gunships, you know, launching anti-tank missiles into the neighborhood where I lived. I was utterly stunned and terrified. So there's two ways. Imagine the Greek one first lesson is we can get ahead of prompts, pay attention, look at how society holds together. How did different groups get along, you know, how does the economy work? There's a lot, right? But but you can anticipate things that can trigger violence. And if you can anticipate them, you can do something about it. Amen. But the flip side of that lesson is for someone like me, who grew up in the middle of nowhere, small town. I hadn't been in the military. I had zero exposure, zero exposure to this kind of thing. Even though I could see it coming with the rational part of my brain, I couldn't feel it. I couldn't imagine that my life would be turned upside down by a violent conflict, because it was so far out of the realm of my experience. And that's the second lesson that stay with me ever after that, it's hard for people to imagine how ugly things can get. And in my subsequent career working around the Middle East, I had this conversation with people from Iraq, people from Syria who looked at what happened in their countries but descended into civil wars and were just just dumbfounded that this had happened to them, that they ended up in places where, you know, neighbors were killing neighbors. So that's the other side of it is even though you can see this is coming, it can be very hard to really make people understand how dangerous some of this can get and how important it is to work ahead of it.
[00:08:10:18] Wilk Wilkinson: Sure. So. So then, Nathan, so you said you were having this conversation with with these buddies, about, you know, what this war would look like. And, and I guess, you know, what was going to lead up to it. But you guys obviously had, you know, some inkling that that something was going to happen. And I think you're right. I think a lot of people don't when they're thinking about these things, don't really realize how ugly things can get. I mean, we've heard it. Well, I know I have and I, I'm assuming that that a lot of other people have too. They've heard people in, in different circles in this country today, you know, talking about. Oh, well, you know, we simply cannot coexist with the other side anymore. And, you know, what's going to, you know, we're going to end up in a civil war and things like that. And they talk about civil war in terms of it, like it's just just this thing. It's going to happen. And and then everybody will go, but, but, but the ugliness of that and what comes along with that and just the horrific nature of that kind of violence, like you said, neighbors killing neighbors and, and, rockets being shot into your neighborhood and, and things like that. Was there a specific conversation that you, you had or something that you could point to that really changed? You know, your, your paradigm on, on what conflict resolution was and what that and the importance of getting ahead of these kind of things. Because is there is there something that really pointed that out for you and you kind of had that moment like, oh my gosh, this, this is, this is going to be one of the ugliest people that many of these people or ugliest things that any of these people have ever seen. And I mean, it's certainly like you said, it was the ugliest thing that you had ever seen. At that point in your life.
[00:10:18:01] Nathan Stock: Yeah. I don't think there was a singular conversation, but I, I lived in Gaza for two years and, you know, 2000 and 2002 during something that the Palestinians called the Israelis, I suppose the Al-Aqsa Intifada and the violence that occurred at that time in Israel, in Gaza and Israel, you saw, you know, terrible suicide bombings, Palestinians targeting Israeli civilians at restaurants and nightclubs. Right. And that was horrifying, right? I had a suicide bomber go off, you know, within 500 yards of me once. And and on the Palestinian side, the levels of violence they experienced at, mostly at the hands of the Israeli military were also unprecedented at that time. Armored bulldozers leveling refugee camps, tank shelling, air raids, I mean, people who were already really poor, already living in camps, seeing their cinderblock houses demolished. So that kind of thing is, is it's searing. That certainly was for me as a young man. And planted in me there's this long running desire that's been with me ever since to just try to help communities, not go through things like that. And then, you know, fast forward, you know, many years in America going back, you know, ten, you know, 8 or 10 years now, there were moments there. And toward the end of the Obama years, even before President Trump came on the scene, when you started to hear the way Republicans and Democrats, elected officials, you know, senior people talked about each other. Yeah, that that started to really get my attention. The lack of trust, lack of trust in institutions, assuming ill will, that reminded me of these other highly divided societies that I've worked in and, and started to get me thinking about, man, you know, maybe I should stop being a middle East conflict guy and figure out a way to help my own country.
[00:12:26:19] Wilk Wilkinson: Yeah. And I and I want to dive into that because I think that's that's really important. That's when when somebody that has has worked for as many years as you did, Nathan. And you know, overseas in these war torn areas where, where conflicts weren't just rhetorical conflicts, they were actual major violent conflicts, people dying, in, like you said, suicide bombings and and and and tank shelling and things like this. Again, people in America, the vast majority of the people in the United States of America don't even have a way to comprehend that, because, I mean, in our country today, so few, of us actually served in the military. And then out of the people of us that did serve in the military, a very small percentage of those actually serving in, in combat. And, and I never did, thank God. But I, I've known several who have and the vast majority of Americans cannot comprehend the horror of, of that kind of violence and those kind of things happening, let alone having those things happen here in our country. So as somebody who worked for so many years in these war torn areas, Nathan, what do you see as, as similarities the in in what was happening or what led up to to some of those conflicts? And then what you're seeing here today, I mean, like you said, you started here at the, you know, during the Obama years. And I heard it during the Obama years, where, where people were just saying these, these horrible things about each other. Actually, I heard it before. Even Obama came on the scene. I was hearing it during the, during the Bush administration where where people were actually, and some of the stuff that was being said about Bush, you know, that we had this period of unity in this country after nine over 11 and people kind of came together and it was USA, you know, USA, USA, you know, people flying flags on the, on the windows of their cars and, and things like that. And, and there was a sense of, of national pride and, and things, you know, we were really unified towards this ugly, you know, force of Al-Qaeda and, and global terrorism and things like this for, for.
[00:14:58:21] Nathan Stock: For a while.
[00:15:00:04] Wilk Wilkinson: But then, then then you started to hear, the Bush bashing and the, the things, again, about, you know, colonialism and, you know, American imperialism and, and things like that. Now all of a sudden, we, we started to see a lot of serious toxicity there. And, and then, and then when Obama started coming on, the scene started running against McCain. There was just some very, very, very ugly things being said. And then I think it just throughout the eight years of the Obama administration, really exacerbated to a level that that people that I had never seen before. So, so talk to me again, like I said, from somebody who we spent as much time as you did doing conflict resolution in these war torn areas, talk to me about the similarities that you started to to see in the United States and unpack that a little bit further. For me.
[00:15:57:19] Nathan Stock: Yeah. Well, there's some clear similarities. There's also some really important differences that I, I want to touch on too, because we are not in a something like a civil war and we don't need to go there. No, there are a lot of ways out of this. I, I don't, I don't want to be to gloom and doom here. Yeah. But but to your question, you know, there are real similarities to the way politics has worked in a country like Lebanon. And some of the dynamics you see in the US now, Lebanon fought a 15 year civil war ended in 1990, that civil war divided people across both political and religious lines. You saw some fighting within religious groups, and you saw coalitions that were religiously aligned fighting each other and ever after, even though the war ended in 1990, to this day, you know, Lebanese politics were highly divided. And there is this sense of tribal identity that maps on to largely, you know, religious and and political lines, so that if you are in, you know, this camp that's aligned with, say, these Shiite political parties, you consume different media, then the people who are Sunni Muslims. Right. That sound familiar? You, you know, you you have a just a totally different worldview. And people in those political tribes, you reflexively you have to stick with your team. The idea of, you know, finding common ground or, you know, convincing the other guy is just not there. Some of that those dynamics, there are definitely echoes of that for partisans in the US. Now, mind you, there's like half the country that's kind of in the middle, honestly doesn't follow politics, and it's just not all that jazzed up about this stuff for for better and worse. Right. But folks who are on more of the wings, they're either, you know, ardent Democrats or Republicans, a lot of those dynamics are similar, consume different media, you know, as a result, increasingly live in just totally different informational environments. And then the next thing that happens is you start to look at the other political side, as you know, either space aliens or someone coming to get you and your side.
[00:18:19:10] Wilk Wilkinson: Yeah, they're not just wrong about what they believe. They're evil. And we start to ascribe all these terrible motives to, to to people. And I think it's important, Nathan, what you bring up there about, you know, the media that we consume and the personalities that we follow, how how much that can guide our perception of things. You know, what our media diet is really drives, a lot of this polarization. I, I've said it quite often lately is, is that that media consumption, what we consume drives our perception of things, and our perception becomes our reality. So if the people that you are listening to, if the media that you're consuming is constantly telling you how bad the other side is or how evil they are, you begin to believe that becomes your reality.
[00:19:12:16] Nathan Stock: And just to build on that for a second, mean do the thought experiment. I'm old enough to remember the 80s. I remember a time before cable. Imagine if our media environment worked the way it did in 1983. You got three networks and you got your local paper. It would just be very different. Maybe we'd have a Republican in the white House, maybe a Democrat, I don't know, but you sure as heck wouldn't have this this tribal vitriol that we've seen in the last few years.
[00:19:42:16] Wilk Wilkinson: No, we definitely would not. We definitely would not. so then, living in these different cultures, Nathan. and getting to see what you have have experienced, over the course of your career, what has been, I guess, what is. What are some of the biggest assumptions that you've kind of had to, to change or paradigm shifts that, that you had to make? Because, again, we I think a lot of us want to, assume that people are generally pretty good, right? On the whole, that people are pretty good. But but when you do live in environments, you know, you're working in, you're living amongst the the Israel-Palestine conflict back in the early 2000, I believe you've done some work, with regard to the Syrian civil war, different things like that. What are some of the, assumptions or life lessons that you've, you've picked up and the assumptions about humans and human nature and, and different political systems that that, I guess, guide you now when you're trying to do conflict resolution here in the United States.
[00:21:03:17] Nathan Stock: Yeah, that's a great question. So, I think that peop most people are good and by good I would just say, look, we're social animals, right? We I guess we all started hunting and gathering in groups of 30. Well, in order to do that, the thing that made us rise above the chimpanzees and every other form of life on Earth is that we can cooperate. We can be nice to each other, we can take care of the sick and the weak and the person who twists an ankle when you're out hunting a wooly mammoth, right. Like we have that most people, the vast majority of us, aren't sociopaths. We are nice. I think that's true. But the thing I learned over the years, working internationally, is that in the right conditions, those same forces that, help us form groups and cooperate and help each other, that can be turned to really ugly ends that and that we as Americans, we're not special like nobody's special, you know? Hey, you know, like, bad things can happen. Nice people can do bad things to other people. And no country, no political system is completely, magically, permanently immune to that. Now again in this country today, you, me, all of us, we have agency. We have agency. For the most part, we still live in a democracy. We decide. We, the American people decide. We decide. We are going to decide how we treat one another. Are we kind? Are we curious? Do we take care of each other? Do we, you know, roll up our sleeves and do our best to get through this? We can still get out of this, but at the same time, it's clear, you know, in the right pressure cooker, bad things can happen. Yeah.
[00:23:01:05] Wilk Wilkinson: Yeah. And I want to get into that a little bit more because, I mean, you said something there that that good, good people can, can end up doing bad things and good people can end up doing bad things to other people. And, and one of the things that have been circulating or seen circulating quite often lately is, is it's a meme that says, do not, do not let people. What a it says something to the effect of, you know, don't let, don't, don't let somebody else's opinion of somebody that you don't know, turn them into, into something worse than they probably are or something to that effect, you know. Right. And I, I think, I think this is, is hugely important. And that's why I want you to unpack that a little bit, because, you know, just thinking about that. Right. Thinking about somebody who is, who is generally a pretty good person and, and how they can be driven to do something bad or, or say something bad. I mean, I've seen people online, Nathan, who say some of the ugliest things about people that that I know, that they don't know, I mean, that that, you know, and they say it because somebody else's opinion of that person or or or somebody else's perception of that person is now driving this person to hate that person. And I think it's a very ugly thing. And I think what you say there is, you know, people can be good, people can be driven to do bad things. Again, I think it goes back to the media that we consume, the people that we follow, the people that we place our trust in. That's another thing that you mentioned was, you know, one of these things that that really drives, a lot of this ugliness and can lead to, the political violence is, is trust that that institutional trust. And we in this country today, Nathan, we're at a period in time where I think institutional trust, whether it be in our public health, realm, which I've done a lot of work in, is, is and that's just one of the institutions. I mean, you look at the, the FBI and, and the HHS and, and, and, the all of these different institutions within our government right now are at all time lows for, for trust and people people just don't have faith in these institutions anymore. They don't have faith in our politicians anymore. People are losing faith in each other. And yes, that can drive people, generally good people, to do ugly and bad things. So unpack that a little bit more, because I think that's one of the things that we need to key on in this, in this fight is and when I say this fight, I mean the fight against political polarization, the fight against toxic polarization, is do not allow yourself as a good human being, because I think we all probably think we as individuals. I mean, I think I'm a good person. I think you're a good person, and I know other good people that have been driven to say very, very ugly things about people they don't know. Talk to me a little bit more about that.
[00:26:22:16] Nathan Stock: Well, first, your point on trust and trust in institutions being a problem, you're dead on. There's there's Gallup data on this. Every year, Gallup surveys our fellow Americans, they ask us, to what extent do you trust Congress, banks and business and the military and religion? And, you know, pretty much since Nixon was in the white House, our reported trust in the institutions of American life has been dropping. And I agree that's problem. You know, in particular, because it just makes it harder to have a conversation based on some shared universe of facts. It's another thing pushing us into narrower and narrower tribal corners. All that said, well, what do you do about it? Well, I mean, I strongly recommend two things. It might seem obvious. One is for the many, many Americans who live in a political bubble of one side or the other, invest in just one relationship with somebody who thinks differently than you do, who has different politics than you do, and make a commitment to repeated engagement with that person. What? A one off is not going to do it. The purpose of the engagement is not to convert that person. You're not going to flip a Democrat or flip a Republican. Invest in the relationship so that you can understand where that person is coming from. That's right. And ensure that you humanize that person. And you should do this with an aim to getting to a place where after, you know, you've hung out with your cousin or your uncle or your neighbor, or whomever, a few times, you should be able to tell the other person's origin story. Oh, you know, my cousin Bob views the world in this way. These are his, you know, social political views because he grew up here. He had, you know, some early life experiences doing this, that and the other. He worked in this industry. All of this shapes the person he is today. And your cousin Bob should be able to do that for you. That's how you know you've made some progress, right? So yeah, invest in that. And there's there's dialog guides or stuff you can Google Braver Angels I think that's some of this material right right there.
[00:28:42:19] Wilk Wilkinson: And it's got some phenomenal material for this one. We got a new, it's a depolarization dojo, kind of thing where people can go engage with, with, with just different, their AI figures. But they've, they've got backgrounds, they've got things that, that you can actually go in and learn about that person and it will great you on your conversations. It's a very, very exciting thing. And, and, yeah. Well, well, we, you and I can talk a little bit more about that offline, but it's it's going to be a game changer in, in how, people can, practice this stuff in real time.
[00:29:18:13] Nathan Stock: Yeah. Well then the second thing is, you know, regarding your point about people saying awful things on the internet, I mean, Lord knows you're onto something. You know, there there are trainings out there. I know someone who did a set of, training trolls on this about just the way in which all of us are manipulated on the internet. There is almost always, if you go online, somebody trying to make a buck or persuade you in one direction or the other, often not for altruistic reasons.
[00:29:49:13] Wilk Wilkinson: That's right.
[00:29:50:07] Nathan Stock: And the more we're all aware of that, the better. Number one, and, you know, Google it. You can probably find these materials online like but but as you get educated about how the internet works and how algorithms work, we all need to be a little more disciplined. You know, part of what makes social media in this way so pernicious is it's frictionless. It's so fast. It's designed to be fast. It's designed to be addictive. It's designed to allow you to just repost, retweet, or give us thumbs down emoji or, you know, bang off a snarky comment. And we've all got to get in the habit of taking a beat before you do that. First of all. And first of all, pause. Hit the pause button. Teach yourself to do that. Second, you know if if someone you know is put something online that you really don't like. Maybe this is because I'm a I'm a dinosaur. I'm a Gen Xer. But I would say before you write a snappy post in response, call them on their phone. Right? How is it you don't know their universe? Just call your cousin Bob and say, hey, help me understand why you said that on Facebook. Talk me through it. I don't agree, but help me understand it. I mean that that's how you do this. And you know, in my work in the last few years, I've been building networks in some states. Now in Minnesota to try to push back against the kind of rhetoric that that is driving real world harm, harassment of public officials, different times of different types of political, gender based violence. And in other states where I've worked for, we've built these networks. The folks I've brought together have done that within their own in groups, their own tribes. So, you know, I had Democrats and Republicans in Florida doing this work at the local level. They were in these networks because they were politically active. They were active Democrats, active Republicans in the state, and they would see things in their own social media feeds, you know, such and such a guy who lost a school board race. And he was real in that shape, and he puts up some social media post questioning the election result, the integrity of the process in ways that just really aren't they're not found it. It's just it's not it's not in the facts. Yeah. Emotional tirade. Yep. Yeah. But but when you do that what do you you know, what are you signaling. You're telling other people in your tribe that the system is is wonky is maybe that's Rick. Right. And that is dangerous. It undermines everybody's confidence in the whole process. So my colleagues, they would see this stuff and they wouldn't, you know, put some screed up on social media. They would call their friend Mike, Bob, Jane, whomever and say, hey, listen. And they got people to take social media post down, right. Do that. That makes a difference. And then likely that person who put up that problematic first post will think a little more carefully next time. That's the other benefit. Yeah.
[00:33:00:21] Wilk Wilkinson: I think anything we can do to to, you know, kind of kind of caused that pause from people, you know, just just sending out the this, this ugliness, you know, or things that are going to degrade the trust of people and, you know, further degrade trust in institutions and, and things like that. I mean, I think these are all very important things, Nathan. I mean, the work that you're doing, you know, with, you know, crowd connect now and, and more in common and, and the work that you've done over the years with the Carter Center and, you know, internationally and then taking that experience and bringing it back here to the United States, I think all of these things are hugely important because, again, I you know, you and I've talked about this, I'm not one who believes that that we are nearly as divided as many would have you believe. But the problem is, and just like we said, there's a very small percentage of the people that have very loud voices, and they're making it appear that we are far more divided than we are. You know, there's a very small portion of people out there that are saying, oh, yeah, we cannot we can no longer coexist with the other side. And these people are evil. They're not wrong, they're evil. And and when we allow those to be the loudest voices, or we allow ourselves as good people to start posting those ugly things online, then then the problem just continues to get worse. It's a it's a, it's an exponential cycle of, of toxicity that we can't allow to happen. So, Nathan, I know where we've gone. Gone through our time here today. So fast and, so many more things that that I know you'll be able to bring to the listeners, in our next conversation. But let's tell the listeners where they can find out more about you and the work that you are doing right now. And, and then we'll wrap this one up and we'll look forward to the next one.
[00:35:06:06] Nathan Stock: Sure. Follow me on Facebook. LinkedIn. Nathan Stock, happy to share more about what we're doing.
[00:35:13:07] Wilk Wilkinson: Very good. All your contact information will definitely be in the show notes for this episode. Nathan. And and, I, of course, look forward to, many more conversations with you. Thank you so much.
[00:35:23:10] Nathan Stock: Yeah, thanks. Wilk, great to be here.
[00:35:26:19] Wilk Wilkinson: Friends, I want to thank you so much for tuning in. And if there's anything in this episode that provided exceptional value to you, please make sure to hit that share button. If you haven't done so already, please be sure to subscribe to get the Derate the Hate podcast sent to your email inbox every week. We really are better together, so please take a moment to visit BraverAngels.org and consider joining the movement towards civic renewal and bridging our political divides. This is Wilk wrapping up for the week saying get out there. Be kind to one another. Be grateful for everything you've got. And remember, it's up to you to make every day the day that you want it to be. With that, my friends, I'm going to back on out of here and we will catch you next week. Take care.
Comments & Upvotes