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There are many ways to enter the bridge-building space.
Some come through politics.
Some through activism.
Some through outrage.
April Ossmann came through poetry.
April Ossmann is the author of We: Poems (Red Hen Press, 2025), a collection devoted to healing political division through empathy and shared humanity.
She is also the author of:
Event Boundaries (Vermont Book Award finalist)
Anxious Music
Numerous essays including âOn Being a Bridgeâ
A former executive director of Alice James Books, April now runs her own consulting business helping writers develop and publish their work. She lives in White River Junction, Vermont â and is a recent member of Braver Angels.
In a time when civility is often dismissed as weakness, April argues it is essential to democracy itself.
âWe canât solve any of our problems if we canât even speak to each other civilly.â
Rhetoric persuades.
Metaphor reveals.
April shares how writing poetry is her primary avenue for spiritual growth â a way to uncover unconscious truths and see beyond ego.
Inspired by the Battle Hymn of the Republic, April wrote a Peace Hymn centered on harmony, compassion, and what she calls âGlory be in civility.â
Wilk explores the idea that true progress doesnât require win-lose compromise â but synergizing around shared core values.
Aprilâs book We invites readers to see past caricatures and political labels â and rediscover the human being behind them.
We explores:
Political estrangement within families
Unconscious prejudice
Finding common ground
Listening with intention
The spiritual dimension of democracy
This is not a partisan book.
Itâs a human one.
Democracy was designed to allow us to solve problems without violence.
That only works if we refuse to dehumanize one another.
This episode is about reclaiming that space.
April Ossmannâs Website: https://aprilossmann.com/
The world is a better place if we are better people. That begins with each of us as individuals. Be kind to one another. Be grateful for all youâve got. Make every day the day that you want it to be!
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The Derate The Hate podcast is proudly produced in collaboration with Braver Angels â Americaâs largest grassroots, cross-partisan organization working toward civic renewal and bridging partisan divides. Learn more: BraverAngels.org
Welcome to the Derate The Hate Podcast!
*The views expressed by Wilk, his guest hosts &/or guests on the Derate The Hate podcast are their own and should not be attributed to any organization they may otherwise be affiliated with.
[00:00:00:00] Wilk Wilkinson: We know the way out of our toxic political division is not through louder rhetoric, but deeper listening. And the answer isn't in winning arguments, but rediscovering each other's humanity. Today I'm joined by someone who knows this all too well. My guest is poet and author April Ossmann, whose new book, we is an Invitation to Bridge divides not with slogans but with soul. Stick with me. Welcome back, my friends, for the Derate the Hate podcast. I'm your host, Wilk Wilkinson, your blue collar sage calming outrage and helping to navigate a world divided by fog and those who would spread that fear, outrage and grievance. The Derate the Hate podcast is proudly produced in collaboration with Braver Angels, America's largest grassroots cross. partisan organization working towards civic renewal. This podcast amplifies the mission that we share to foster a more respectful and united America where civic friendship thrives even when we disagree. Each week, through the power of story, conversation, and connection with incredible guests, we work to build bridges instead of barriers, not to change minds on the issues, but to change how we see one another when we differ. Because friends, it really is about bettering the world one attitude at a time. We did not create the hate, but together we can Derate the Hate. So be sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcast. Share it with a friend and visit BraverAngels.org to learn how you can get involved in the movement to bridge the partisan divide. Friends, I am so incredibly grateful that you have joined me for another powerful Derate the Hate episode. So let's get to it. Today's conversation is one that surprised me a bit in the best way. April Ossmann is a poet author. She's the former executive director of Alice James Books and the author of Why Poems, a collection devoted entirely to bridging our political divide. She didn't enter the bridging space through politics. She entered it through pain, through family estrangement, and through watching rhetoric turn neighbors into enemies. And instead of picking a side and digging in. She picked up a pen. In this episode, we talk about how poetry can become a tool for spiritual growth, how metaphor teaches, where rhetoric fails, and why civility is not a weakness but a strength. We also talk about her piece hymn for the Republic. How about seeing past ego to soul, and why she believes democracy itself depends on our willingness to stop villainize in each other. If you've ever wondered whether art can actually help heal a divided nation, this one's for you. Let's get into it with my friend April Ossmann. Here we go. April Ossmann, thank you for joining me on the Derate the Hate podcast. It is wonderful to see you today.
[00:03:35:04] April Ossmann: It's wonderful to see you, and I'm excited to talk to you finally.
[00:03:39:05] Wilk Wilkinson: Yeah. This, we have obviously had some technical difficulties making this happen. There was, whether it be bandwidth issues or computer issues, whatever the issues were, this is our, this is our, I think our third go around at trying to make this happen. And, I am certainly grateful for the, technical difficulties appear to be gone, knock on wood. And we are going to have a great conversation today. So, Yeah. April, thank you so much for reaching out to me. And, and, you know, I understand from, from the, from the email that you sent me that you are a, a new member of Braver Angelsand, as a as a author and a poet, somebody who is who is taking that skillset as an author and a poet and using that to, now help bridge divide. So I really want to get into, a little bit about your background and how that, how that life as a poet kind of translates into the, into the Braver Angelsway. So talk to me about how you found out about braver angels. But then what it was that kind of made you think, I can use what I do to help bridge these divides?
[00:04:58:21] April Ossmann: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I actually, you know, writing the book and wanting to write about bridging happened first, I think, before I heard of Bravery Angels. I probably heard of them just kind of vaguely early on, like, you know, after the organization was formed. But I wasn't, like, really aware of them until more recently when I was doing some research for I wrote an essay on bridging that was published in a newspaper a couple of months ago. And so in doing that research over a few months, you know, I became more aware of various bridging organizations Civity and, Weavers community and braver angels. But it wasn't until I met, Beth Mallow and Doug Tester, who are both Braver Angelsof long standing. Yes. Yeah, they have a new book, called Beyond the Politics of Contempt, which is a kind of a how to on how to, you know, depolarizing and bridging. And they gave a talk about their book at Dartmouth, which Dartmouth College, which is near me. And I thought, oh, I have to go to that. So I went and I really enjoyed their talk, and I brought them each a copy of my book, which is also about bridging, and, you know, meet them afterwards. And we chatted and, really hit it off. And so we got together. That's it. I got together to talk about, you know, maybe doing some readings together with both of our books and. Nice. So it was with her encouragement that I joined Braver Angels. And, you know, I joined weavers, weavers a few months ago, but I have to say that I feel like Braver Angelsis, maybe the best fit for me. I love that the membership is 5050, that, you know, you've got half conservatives and half liberals and and then there are probably a lot of people like me. They're kind of in between. But, I really like that. Like, I'm ready to like, you know, put my head in the lion's mouth. Yeah, yeah. Well, so. Yeah. And. Oh.
[00:06:51:21] Wilk Wilkinson: Yeah, the great thing about that, April is, you know, we, we obviously we strive to, strive to make sure like our leadership and the co-chairs of our, our, our alliance groups and things like that, are all split, you know, between what we call as reds and blues and things like that. Yeah, I certainly wish our membership and one of my great goals as a conservative is to to kind of get our membership to that 5050 split. But, so if anybody out there that's listening to this is a conservative, please understand that, that we need more conservative voices in this movement to, you know, kind of depolarize and take the temperature down in our political discourse and our societal discourse and things like that. But I just wanted to jump in and say that there real quick. Yeah, because we do have an imbalance. But that imbalance can be cured by participation from people of the conservative persuasion like myself.
[00:07:50:09] April Ossmann: I'm I'm currently working on a conservative friend to get her to join.
[00:07:54:08] Wilk Wilkinson: So very nice. Very nice. So, so yeah, I, I love the fact that you bring up, Doug and Beth and their book and, you know, I've worked with, with them, on, on different things, over the years, you know, back when I was a volunteer and then now as, as a member of staff at Braver Angels. But yeah, their book, Beyond the Politics of Contempt, I have a copy of it right here. And, and, it's a wonderful book and, and, and I'm excited to learn more about your book. We, and just just kind of walk me through then, you know, you as a poet and someone who is, has focused a lot of your, energy on poetry. How do you see how do you see the world of poetry coming together with the world of bridging and through the lens of a poet, how do you see the Braver Angelsaway? April?
[00:08:46:10] April Ossmann: Yeah. Yeah. I think, you know, is in writing the book. You know, I started writing the book in, 2015. I was getting really upset by all of the news about, you know, police killings of unarmed black men. And I started thinking about, you know, prejudice and, like, well, okay, what's my part in this? You know, and, and then the, the campaign was happening, and I was getting really concerned about how divisive and villainized the rhetoric was getting and, and, you know, and I just, you know, thinking about where that was going to take our, our society as a nation. I was really concerned. And then, you know, we had, a family estrangement because of politics and then things felt really personal to me. The divisions, you know, I wasn't the person, you know, who caused the estrangement, but I was kind of collateral damage in it. And so, you know, a fellow family member, and it was painful for them, painful for me, and painful for other family members. And so, you know, for me as a writer, I'm I'm always writing about whatever it is I'm really struggling with, at the time. And, you know, in 2015 and in a for quite a few years there, things were getting so divisive in our country and in the family that I really needed to write the poem to try to figure that out. And I started thinking about other kinds of prejudice. Right. Besides, you know, racial prejudice, like political, you know, reds and blues and just all kinds and like, you know, what's my part in that? What are my unconscious prejudices? Because certainly consciously, I work not to be prejudiced or judgmental. But, you know, we all have unconscious prejudices that we don't even realize that we have, you know, so I really wanted to kind of investigate that and think, like, how can I maybe, you know, start bridging, you know, with these divides, you know, divides of race, class, gender, you know, education, rural, urban, whatever. And so that's, you know, I was writing these poems like trying to, make bridges and to understand how someone who might think different than me thinks or felt. So there are a lot of poems that kind of do that directly, in some indirectly. And, you know, when I heard about Braver Angelsand I, you know, I read kind of, you know, how how you describe yourselves and all that, like the rhetoric you use is very similar to the rhetoric that I use to describe my book. And my call and response ratings were and I was actually doing the call and response readings well before I joined Braver Angels. But I feel like it's kind of a perfect fit with Braver Angelsbecause, you know, I'm asking audiences to share stories of reaching across the divide successfully, like they were at the grocery store and they talked to someone they think probably disagreed with them politically, but they found common ground and were able to see each other's humanity. And I do that at my readings, and I do it in my daily life. And so, yeah, I feel like I was kind of I'm kind of a perfect fit for pretty different things.
[00:11:49:21] Wilk Wilkinson: Well, certainly a perfect fit in in the braver or in the, in the bridging space in general. And I want you to walk me through, April, I want to walk through that, using poetry and writing poetry to help better understand. Because to me, I mean, if I'm hearing this right, you use that as a, as you use that, that poetry or the writing of poetry as a skill building exercise to better understand. So, I mean, I and Mia, who's completely foreign to the world of poetry, I just want to I just want to know or see if I understand that correctly. That is something that you do to learn. Is it the research or is it the the, the actual poetry itself and how it comes together in your mind that helps you better understand? Explain that for me a little bit more, because I just don't understand it and I want to. Yeah.
[00:12:46:05] April Ossmann: Yeah, yeah. So I think, for me, writing poetry is a primary avenue for me of spiritual growth. My first priority as a human being in this life is to grow spiritually as much as I can. And an important way that I do that is in writing poetry. So when I write, I feel like they're kind of two, two parts of my brain or my mind that are writing one part is the conscious part, like the forebrain that, you know, that's the part of my brain that like, it thinks it's smart, it thinks it's in charge. And then there's this unconscious contribution that happens, you know, that's contributing to the writing that I'm not really even aware of. And then I, you know, when I read the poem later, you know, that's the part where I go, oh, like, I discover things. And to me, I think the unconscious is the wiser part of our brain. And I think it thinks and metaphor, that part of it. And I think that part of my brain is like, is trying to teach me, you know, teach the smarty pants part wisdom. All right. So, yeah. And, you know, whatever it is I'm accessing, whether it's the force, like in Star Wars or it's God or whatever it is, I feel like that's a wiser part of me. And, you know, and sometimes as a writer, you feel like you're kind of channeling that, right? As you're writing. And I think, you know, rhetoric doesn't convince anyone. And I don't know how much you discover through rhetoric, but I think you discover things through metaphor and story. Yeah. And when you hear stories, you can relate to that. And, and, you know, when you hear a metaphor describe, you can relate to that. And those are both things that poetry does. And and it works for me too, with myself. Like, you know, I discover things in writing the poems and I'm writing to discover something. So for me, a poem isn't done yet. If I haven't discovered something yet and the writing of it in it, I may be discovering something about myself or someone else, or, you know, people in general, or spiritual or, you know, emotional truths.
[00:14:48:23] Wilk Wilkinson: Yeah. That is so important. I, I love the fact that you make the point that, you know, how much do we actually learn from rhetoric and, and, you know, the power of storytelling, in my opinion, cannot be overstated. And, you know, I'll go back to something I say quite often, April, and that that we cannot hate somebody into believing what we believe and, or seeing things the way that we see them. But, you know, through the power of a good story or through the power of a good metaphor, and when we can work through those things and then I love, you know, kind of encapsulating and embracing that subconscious part of our brain as we're working through things to, to find the right story or find the right metaphor in, in how we want that message to be conveyed and what we want people to take away from that. I mean, a big part of the bridging space, and the work that we do at Braver Angelsand, and in this bridging space in general requires a, requires a large amount of, of not only listening, but but thinking through our own opinions and thinking through what was our what our own life experience has been to get to where we are on a particular issue. And, I think not only for, for you as a poet who uses that subconscious part of your brain to to then find it and then go back later, even, and find it, after, you know, after writing these and then going back and reading it after it's been written. But just the the understanding that people find when they are truly listening with intention to somebody that may have a different opinion of theirs. I think that also does wonders in kind of embracing that subconscious, that subconscious part and saying, oh, I never you know, I never thought of it that way. I mean, that's, it's it's hugely important. So, so I want to get into, a little bit more about what people can find in the book. We but then but there's also something that I was when I was kind of looking through, the work that you've done, April, at, I'm trying to think it's something about the Battle Hymn of the Republic, but you've got a you've got something that you've done called the Peace Hymn for the Republic. Yeah. Can you dive in that for me a little bit? Because. Because there's, there's something there that I think is hugely important. Right now. And as we go into the, you know, here it's early 2026 that the, the 250th anniversary of the signing of the Declaration of Independence, it's going to be a hugely important year, for the history of our republic. And, I just I saw that and it stood out to me. So talk me. But first of all, tell me what this is. Tell what to tell the listeners. What is the the peace hymn? For the Republic that you have, you've got are you are working on or you've, you've got going.
[00:17:59:11] April Ossmann: Yeah, yeah. I actually this, this poem, which is actually also a song I wrote the, the poem, I wrote the words to it, to the music of the Battle Hymn of the Republic. So you can actually sing this, which I'm not going to do for you, because I'm not going to inflict that on you. But I'll read it if you want. Please do. Okay. But yeah, I wrote this, like thinking about, you know, the songs we choose as our patriotic songs, like, you know, so many of them are warlike and, and, you know, I want to I want to encourage peace, especially in this time of such bitter division. Right. And so I decided that I'm going to make this a piece hymn instead of a battle hymn. And I've also made God female in this. So it's very subtle feminist.
[00:18:47:14] Wilk Wilkinson: Okay.
[00:18:49:07] April Ossmann: Yeah. So, Peace Hymn for the Republic. My, my eyes have seen the gore in every battle of the hordes. My heart knows all that swords achieve is breeding evermore. But listening tends the vineyards where the grapes of peace are stored. Her truth is teaching us. Glory be in civility. Glory be in civility. Glory be in civility. Her truth is teaching us I can hear a better future so content with harmony that no man or woman will deny our rhapsody. Intolerance will burn and fires of divinity. Her love is changing us. Glory be in civility. Glory be in civility, glory be in civility. Her love is changing us. She has sounded loud. The trumpet that need blow for no more wars. So learn to play jazz standards and throw open all the doors. So welcome every one of us to dance for evermore. Her joy invites us in. Glory be in civility. Glory be in civility, glory be in civility. Her joy invites us in with hearts full of compassion that transfigures you and me. Let no one die to grow our souls, but live to make us free. Let every rainbow nation dance and sing in harmony. Our love unites us all. Glory be in civility. Glory be in civility. Glory be in civility. Our love unites us all.
[00:20:42:09] Wilk Wilkinson: Beautiful, beautiful. And thank you for sharing that. I, yeah, glory be in civility I, I, I love the idea I, I am someone who who knows April that that this country only survives. I mean, I'll go back to the, the, the quote from Lincoln that says, a house divided cannot stand.
[00:21:07:13] April Ossmann: Yeah.
[00:21:08:12] Wilk Wilkinson: Or a house divided against itself cannot stand. Civility is something that we've lost. Decency is something that we have lost in many respects in our in our public discourse. I mean, you know, certainly online, I mean, when, when I go out and I see people and, and, and have conversations with people in real life and not in this internet ecosystem, I do think that there's still a certain degree of civility and decency, amongst people. But, unfortunately, there's a lot of loud noise out there, on online, in our media, in our politics and civility has been one of the great casualties, in my opinion, of the internet ecosystem that that people spend so much time in. So what was your, I guess, walk me through what what that what that inspiration was, you know, you said you started writing the book âWeâ back in 2015, when you started writing this, was there. I guess there's something there for me that and this. This is not just your work, but other people's work. Things that I've seen people have to people far too often now see civility as kind of a weakness. So was that was that part of the inspiration for this and saying, hey, our strength is not you know, being polite is not a weakness. Civility is not a weakness. Talk to me about that.
[00:22:48:08] April Ossmann: Yeah. Yeah, I, I think I think civility is crucial to our democracy and to living together as, as one people. You know, which we are, you know, even if we're feeling divided now, we're still the United States of America. And, you know, I mean, our Constitution was designed to try to to to let us problem solve without violence. That was kind of the whole point. And, and a big piece of that is civility, like, you know, and, and part of the reason I got so concerned in 2015, when I was starting to see how we were demonizing each other and not seeing each other's humanity and reducing each other to, you know, kind of cartoons. I got really concerned because right away I felt like the democracy was at risk and our relationships are at risk. And, you know, I don't want us to be in another civil war or whatever. The equivalent of that would be. These days. Right? Right. Right. So and to me, it's strength. I mean, you know, if you have the strength and the confidence to, to be civil and hopefully kind and compassionate to anyone, to me, that's a strength that, you know, you can do that rather than a weakness. And, and, you know, we can't solve any of the problems that we have in, in our country, you know, whether that's doing something about climate change or whether that's doing something about homelessness or the hungry or school shootings, that we can't solve any of that if we can't even speak to each other civilly. So that's right. You know, I think for me became really important in writing this book to, like, let's get back to a place where we can go beyond that, beyond civility, and see each other's humanity. Like. And that's part of what I try to do. And, you know, and a lot of the poems is to see other people's humanity, besides my own, and some of that, you know, I do with stories, but, because what do you do that it's, it's harder to villainize people if you've seen their humanity. It's harder to villainize them. And that's, you know, if you know and if you're willing to to listen and, you know, do active listening and questioners, you listen and all of that, then, you know, that's the way you can begin to work together and cooperate and compromise, right? If you're just bent on obstruction and it's my way or the highway, you know, that's that's bad for all of us. I think emotionally, spiritually and also as a country like in Congress, they're getting nothing done because, you know, each every time one party or the other gets power, they, they enact non, you know, partisan stuff, right, that the other side doesn't agree with and they impose it on everybody. And then as soon as the other party gets in power they overturn everything. And then like we don't get anything lasting done that we can agree on like bipartisan bills that actually, you know, try to overturn the minute they're enacted.
[00:25:40:06] Wilk Wilkinson: No, that's that's exactly right. I mean, these, these, these drastic pendulum swings caused by, and the make no mistake about it, they're caused by the the drastic divisions that we see based on, the toxic rhetoric. And, and, you know, when you, when you talk about the humanity and, and seeing each other's humanity and, and then not being able to, to so easily villainize, those, those people, them in the US versus them or those on the other side, it's hugely important. And, again, I'll go back to the Lincoln quote, you know, a house divided, cannot house divided, cannot stand. And we as a, as a country cannot continue to function as one of the best and, and most highly functioning countries on the planet when half of the country hates the other side and refuses to work with the other side. You said compromise, which, you know, I I'm not a big fan of the word compromise. I'm more of the Stephen Covey synergize kind of person. And the reality is, is we cannot synergize, and find a solution better than the sum of its parts when we are unwilling to listen to the other side. I mean, compromise. We're trying to give up, and we're forcing both sides to give some, you know, something up to, to find something that we can both kind of, you know, make it palatable. But I don't like things that are just palatable. April, I like things that are better than the sum of their parts. So I, you know, maybe that's grandiose thinking, but what I do know is that you cannot synergize if you're not willing to listen to the other side.
[00:27:23:20] April Ossmann: I'm curious about your distinction. Could you explain to me a little more what you mean by that? Like synergize as opposed to compromise? Like, what's the difference? So in compromising, if you're giving something up, what are you doing differently with the synergize in.
[00:27:37:18] Wilk Wilkinson: Synergize in in my opinion, in the in the way that I see it. And one of the things that Stephen Covey talks about, a lot in the Seven Habits of Highly Effective People is to work through complex issues, not to find a, you know, lose lose or win lose for either side, but to find a win win for both sides in the sense that you know what there is not always, you know, we don't have to give up something. About what we want to find something better again, better than the sum of its parts. So when we actually dive down and work with people that we might disagree with and find out what the core issue it is that they want, which again, goes back to something that I said earlier. But listening with intention, right. We have to listen with intention to that person to find out what it is they actually want. You know, what is it that you are trying to get to as a result of whatever the particular issue that we're talking about now? You know, the core issue is what we're working on. This is the other thing. When we when we over. Well, number one, if we oversimplify things or, or make things far more complex than they need to be, we start to lose sight of what it is. The core issue is and how we can accomplish our core mission. You know, I talk a lot about root cause, problem solving and things like that. If we focus on the core issue, what is the core issue that you're looking to solve? What is the core issue that I'm looking to solve? What are the points of agreement that we can find in this? How do we find something better without overcomplicating the whole thing? And how can we find something that will be the better than the sum of its parts? So the way I differentiate that from from compromise is far too often people start to look at all the different things that they're not going to get when looking for a solution, as opposed to looking at the core issue of what they're trying to solve. So synergize, in my opinion, is always going to be better than compromise, because compromise focus is too much on what we're giving up instead of the what are we trying to accomplish. Hopefully like.
[00:29:59:13] April Ossmann: That.
[00:30:00:03] Wilk Wilkinson: Yeah, hopefully that, that makes sense. But I just think far too often, I mean, two of the biggest problems that I see in general, problem solving on a macro scale for society is, number one, oversimplifying things. And then number two, overcomplicating things. That should be simple. Yeah, that's how my brain works. I don't know if it means anything to anybody. I bet it I think well.
[00:30:28:03] April Ossmann: That's kind of a paradox. What you described, which is another poetic, tool, is, you know, how you can have sort of opposite things be true at the same time, right?
[00:30:39:23] Wilk Wilkinson: Right, right, right. Yeah. All right. So we're we're we're quickly nearing the end of our time here today. April. And and I want to I want to talk a little bit about the book. We, your book we which kind of led you to the the actual bridging space. You were you were writing this book as as a Bridger before you even kind of became a Bridger. So talk to me about, about the book. We what are what are people going to find in this book? And then as we round out our time, we'll tell people where they can find the book.
[00:31:12:19] April Ossmann: Yeah. I hope, I hope, that it will give people some of what I was seeking in writing it. That is, you know, seeing other seeing other people's humanity right across the divide. And I do that a number of the poems, the the poem Nonpartisan is a poem about seeing someone's soul. And, you know, I think that's one of the things that, you know, I'm trying to do, like seeing past egos to souls. Right? Because ego is the one that's argumentative and, you know, and and I was I'm trying to go higher than that. Like, I want to, you know, I think everybody has a soul and and no one's soul is worth more than anyone else. Someone else's soul. We're all equal there. And, so, you know, I'm try to look at politics from a, the point of view of soul and spirit. You know, there are poems about, reaching across the divide, you know, talking to people. You know, there's a poem called Dear Attila about talking to someone, in an airport, gate waiting for our flight. And we were on different sides politically. And, you know, he thought he didn't want to talk to me, but we had a really wonderful conversation. So there's a poem about that, right? You know, he assumed that I was liberal because I'm from Vermont. You know, I still do. Hampshire. And, you know, I think he got surprised. We found some things in common and had a good talk. And we even agreed on something political.
[00:32:35:10] Wilk Wilkinson: Nice. Right.
[00:32:36:21] April Ossmann: So. Yeah. So, you know, you know, I hope I'm doing that in these poems and, just and, you know, the most important thing I think for me is like looking, you know, as I said in the beginning, talking about my own prejudices and the like, what's my part in the divide and what's my part in doing the bridging? And, you know, as a poet, you know, this is my gift, right? So, I'll, I'll be doing bridging probably in lots of different ways at the moment. I'm focused on doing it with the book, because that's kind of the whole point of the book is bridging. So it's a it's a good fit. You know what the braver angels for now. And, you know, after I'm done traveling with the book, I'll probably do other kinds of volunteering for For Braver Angels. But for now.
[00:33:22:09] Wilk Wilkinson: If you want. Wonderful. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that would be wonderful. And and, Yeah, I certainly look forward to seeing, seeing what what you and Doug and Beth can do in collaboration of your efforts and and, you know, bringing together, your world as a poet and their, their world, you know, with their book is, you know, beyond the politics of contempt, I think is going to be a great pairing. And, I look forward to seeing all that comes of that. And, yeah, I greatly appreciate you joining me here today, April. The the, the book again is we, people can find that at, Red hand.org, or obviously your website. We'll, we'll be done there. Right as well. April Osmond dot is it April osmond.com.
[00:34:09:03] April Ossmann: Yep, yep. And red hand press talk. And also you can buy the book anywhere books are sold. The bookshop.org, is a nonprofit and part of the. So part of the proceeds from books sold there go to support independent bookstores. So that's a nice place to buy it. Very nice. Anywhere. Yeah.
[00:34:29:18] Wilk Wilkinson: Very nice. Well, we will make sure that people can find it in the show notes for this episode. April Ossmann, thank you so much for joining me here today. It's been a wonderful conversation and I do look forward to further collaboration down the road. Thank you.
[00:34:43:16] April Ossmann: Thank you, Wilk,
[00:34:45:20] Wilk Wilkinson: Friends, I want to thank you so much for tuning in. And if there's anything in this episode that provided exceptional value to you, please make sure to hit that share button. If you haven't done so already, please be sure to subscribe to get the Derate the Hate podcast sent to your email inbox every week. We really are better together, so please take a moment to visit BraverAngels.org and consider joining the movement towards civic renewal and bridging our political divides. This is Wilk wrapping up for the week saying get out there. Be kind to one another. Be grateful for everything you've got. And remember, it's up to you to make every day the day that you want it to be. With that, my friends, I'm going to back on out of here and we will catch you next week. Take care.
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