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DTH Episode 285 with Rabbi Michael Holzman & Pastor Becca Messman
As America approaches its 250th birthday, two visionary clergy — Rabbi Michael Holzman and Pastor Becca Messman — are inviting faith communities across the nation to help lead a movement of civic renewal.
Faith 250 is a clergy-led, locally rooted initiative that brings together congregations of different faiths to reflect on America’s founding documents, share stories, and rediscover what unites us as citizens and as people of faith.
“Clergy have a unique role in communities,” says Rabbi Holzman. “We can apply the deep wisdom of our faiths to unify people through shared civic values.”
✅ How Faith 250 began as a conversation between two longtime friends and evolved into a national movement
✅ Why faith leaders are uniquely positioned to heal civic divisions
✅ How American texts — like the Declaration of Independence — can serve as moral touchstones
✅ The power of listening and storytelling in rebuilding community trust
✅ How clergy are forming clusters of congregations to host shared meals, dialogues, and public celebrations leading to July 4, 2026
Listening builds connection. The simple act of saying “Shamati — I hear you” transforms conversation into sacred practice.
Faith can bridge divides. When clergy lead with humility and hope, communities follow.
Shared rituals restore unity. Breaking bread together and reflecting on our common ideals reminds us that America’s strength lies in diversity lived with grace.
“We need something like this for our culture,” Pastor Messman says. “It’s time to get in the same boat — to rescue the words and values we all care about.”
👉 Visit Faith250.org to explore the movement and find ways to bring Faith 250 to your community.
Rev. Rebecca Messman is Senior Pastor of Burke Presbyterian Church in Burke, Virginia. She has been actively engaged in community organizing in Fairfax County and the state of Virginia for more than 19 years, working on affordable housing, behavioral health, and after school programs. She is a frequent writer and speaker, with articles in Christian Century and the Presbyterian Outlook magazine. She created a multi-faith multi-race clergy association that toured the state of Virginia by bus, examining places of racial pain in the Commonwealth and interviewing Civil Rights leaders whose stories had not been told before. This effort became a documentary on PBS. Before serving at Burke Presbyterian, Pastor Messman served at Trinity Presbyterian in Herndon and helped found a ministry with Spanish speaking day laborers called Lunch for the Soul. She graduated from Princeton Seminary and University of Virginia. She lives in Arlington with her husband and two children.
Rabbi Michael G. Holzman is the spiritual leader of Northern Virginia Hebrew Congregation, and the creator of the American Scripture Project, a prize winning national program that helps faith communities wrestle with the core narratives of American identity through the practice of sacred text study. He is also the visionary behind American Scripture Project’s latest venture, faith250, an program that connects local congregations for deep conversation and public ritual about the meaning of America’s 250th next summer. Since 2016 he has collaborated with local and national organizations—such as the Aspen Institute, Philanthropy for Active Civic Engagement, and the Shalom Hartman Institute of North America—to investigate the intersection of faith and democracy. Michael graduated Summa Cum Laude and Phi Beta Kappa from Washington University in St. Louis, and received rabbinic ordination from the Hebrew Union College-Jewish Institute of Religion at the New York campus. His faith is grounded in the wisdom of the text, the experience of love he finds in congregational life, the pursuit of justice, and the spiritual test of supporting the Washington Nationals. He hails from Miami and Islamorada, Florida, and when he is not on a hiking trip, lives with his wife, Nicole, and their Covid-canine, Rosie, in Reston, Virginia.
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Transcript is AI generated and may contain errors
[00:00:00:00] Wilk Wilkinson: In a time when fear and cynicism are driving us apart. What if faith leaders from every tradition came together not to preach politics, but to heal our civic soul? In this episode, Rabbi Michael Holzman and Pastor Becca Messman share how Faith 250 is uniting clergy and congregations across America to rediscover our shared ideals and to listen our way back to hope. Welcome back, my friends, for the Direct the Hate podcast. I'm your host, Wilk Wilkinson, your blue collar sage calming outrage and helping to navigate a world divided by fog and those who would spread that fear, outrage and grievance. The D Rate the Hate podcast is proudly produced in collaboration with Braver Angels, America's largest grassroots cross. Partizan organization working towards civic renewal. This podcast amplifies the mission that we share to foster a more respectful and united America where civic friendship thrives even when we disagree. Each week, through the power of story, conversation, and connection with incredible guests, we work to build bridges instead of barriers, not to change minds on the issues, but to change how we see one another when we differ. Because friends, it really is about bettering the world one attitude at a time. We did not create the hate, but together we can direct the hate. So be sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcast. Share it with a friend and visit Braver angels.org to learn how you can get involved in the movement to bridge the partisan divide. Friends, I am so incredibly grateful that you have joined me for another powerful direct the Hate episode. So let's get to it. This week, I'm joined by two remarkable leaders, Rabbi Michael Holtzman and Pastor Becca Messman, to talk about an inspirational national movement called Faith 250. As America approaches the 250th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence, Faith 250 is calling on clergy across faith traditions to come together, to listen, to reflect, and to celebrate what it truly means to be Americans bound by shared moral and spiritual values. Rabbi Holzman, creator of the American Scripture Project, and Pastor Messman, longtime faith leader and community builder, have teamed up to lead this initiative, inviting synagogues, churches and mosques across the country to study foundational American texts, share meals, tell their stories, and hold meaningful public rituals. Leading up to July 4th, 2026. In our conversation, we explore how listening, storytelling and vulnerability can help restore trust, rebuild civic culture, and strengthen the invisible moral backbone of our nation. This isn't about politics. It's about purpose. It's about rediscovering who we are as neighbors, citizens, and people of faith. So let's get into it. My conversation with Rabbi Michael Holtzman and Pastor Becca Messman, and their vision for Faith 250. Here we go. Welcome to Rabbi Michael Holzman and, Pastor Becca Messman. Thank you so much for joining me here on the Derate the Hate podcast. I am, grateful to see you both today.
[00:03:53:01] Rabbi Michael Holzman: It's great to be here.
[00:03:56:10] Wilk Wilkinson: Yeah, it's, it's a real honor. I was introduced to the both of you by a good friend, of the show here. A common friend of ours, Ibrahim Anli, from the, Rumi Forum. And when he introduced me to the idea of having you on to talk about Faith 250, I looked into it and thought, I thought, this is absolutely something that we need to talk about here on the Derate the Hate podcast. With everything that's going on in the world today and the 250th anniversary of the signing of the Declaration of Independence coming up next year. I looked at this as a concept and I thought, wow, this is this is wonderful. So again, grateful to have, both of you here today. So, I will just ask, as, as kind of co coordinators on this project how did this start. Michael, let me, let me just start with you and, and ask how did this or where did the idea for Faith 250 come from. that's where we'll start our conversation today. And I look forward to really getting into it and finding out everything about this for this particular program.
[00:05:07:17] Rabbi Michael Holzman: Sure. I'm happy to, give you the short version. clergy have a unique role in communities, and, we're involved in all kinds of different things. And we also have, a set of relationships with each other that is pretty special in terms of our lives, because our work is so, so strange. And in the sense that a lot of people don't understand what clergy do, we tend to bond with each other really well. And so, Becca and I have known each other now for like, 15 years, and, we've worked together on a whole bunch of different things in our local community in Northern Virginia. So when one of my rabbi friends mentioned to me, he works in, in, day schools, and so, like parochial schools and he, he teaches, he promotes the teaching of civics in parochial schools. And when he mentioned to me some concern with how the 250th was going to be approached by schools, I thought to myself, wow, how is that topic going to be approached by the local house of worship? I mean, it's going to fall on a Saturday next summer, July 4th. And, that weekend people are going to go to synagogue, they're going to go to church, they're going to go to mosque. Like it's going to be something that we do every week. And yet that's not a regular week. Right? So that week is a once in a generation moment. And I started thinking, maybe I should talk to some of my clergy friends and figure out what we should be doing at our synagogues and churches and mosques and, and, houses of worship. And then that led to some thinking around creating an experience that deepens the meaning of America. It's great to celebrate America with fireworks. It's great to celebrate America with barbecues. And and it's great to look at history with kids running around and try corner hats, and reenacting the declaration. All that stuff is great. We wanted to think about what can we do out of our faith traditions that helps us hope for the future and provide inspiration for people? And that was really kind of how the conversation conversation got started. The other piece of it is that for about seven years, my synagogue has been, experimenting with ways that we can strengthen our local civic culture in inside the congregation and, and in the local community. And one thing that we do is we, we, about once a month during the regular time when we study Torah, we, instead add a, sacred text from American tradition, a, what we call American scripture. So a document that we all hold dear as, as citizens, we take that document and we study it deeply, like we normally study the, the Jewish, the Hebrew scripture, and we apply the same kind of thinking and spirituality to the moment. And we thought maybe we should do that with this 250th with our neighbors and see what happens.
[00:07:52:07] Wilk Wilkinson: Yeah, that is absolutely wonderful. And I, I do think that, the faith community has a, has a unique ability to, to bring that. And I love the idea of, of, of, using some of the American sacred texts and, and teaching those in your school. So, so, Becca, then how did you become involved in this with, Rabbi Michael Holzman where, you guys have obviously been, known each other for a very long time now, where where did you come in with this? And how is this playing out, in your, congregation?
[00:08:27:09] Pastor Becca Messman: Thank you. Wilk. so Michael and I talk frequently, and I tell him he is annoyingly smart when he writes. It is so beautiful that it irritates me because I'm just like, how do you do that? And sometime early last summer, I think you asked me, Michael, what are you doing on July 4th next year? And I was I was sort of thrown off because I have not thought about, October 4th, much less July 4th. And, and then we started talking about just a vision of what if, what if, what if, what if we had a way for people to get together for some sort of a meal or a potluck to talk about the sacred values that we, care about and alternate vision, a parallel vision, to offer people. And it it stayed with me and and I've just been walking around with it ever since. As a, as a pastor, there has been so much fear in the air and people just upset and in kind of the work that you've been doing where they, they either feel like they can't talk about anything or they're in their silos and, and they're on edge and, and the question will come, where's the church? Was the church doing what are you all saying about this? And it feeling really spread too thin and, just walking on eggshells and what we started talking about, Michael and I, with the idea of bringing people together in real relationship and talking about what these texts of America mean to us in a very personal, spiritual way. It it was a balm for the soul to say, here's something to do, people, that that brings us together and, casts a vision when so many folks are just kind of flummoxed and confused and mad and upset. So first, what caught me was just a parallel vision that was really hungry for, and then to read the way that Michael describes it is it's just profound.
[00:10:48:00] Rabbi Michael Holzman: Well, I want to jump in because because Reverend Messman here, Becca is being humble, and very kind and generous with her words. I do enjoy writing. However, every everyone who knows me knows I also can't organize my way out of a box. And so when I.
[00:11:06:15] Pastor Becca Messman: You are so outside of the box, so you are.
[00:11:09:22] Rabbi Michael Holzman: Outside the box. So when I spoke to Becca about this, I said, this is an idea, but I have no idea how to how to make this happen. And so it really was like a great complement. we worked together here on this. Well, and, she helped me and help the team think through steps and how we get how we get colleagues. I mean, we're busy, right? Everyone's busy. And so how do we get people's attention? How do we get colleagues to put this on their calendars? How do we get this idea to spread that? That's the kind of synergy we have as a kind of like clergy community. And, that's the first thing I want to say. And then the second thing I want to say is I want to second what Becca said about fear and take it kind of I want to raise that a little bit because I think it's it's more than fear at this point. I think people are feeling despair. I think people are feeling like cynical.
[00:12:00:12] Pastor Becca Messman: Yeah.
[00:12:01:03] Rabbi Michael Holzman: Like ready to give up.
[00:12:02:08] Pastor Becca Messman: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:12:03:06] Rabbi Michael Holzman: So, so the point you make about agency I giving I didn't realize for me I was just like I love these documents I think, I think the writers of these documents are so talented. And I want to just dive into the words, and the idea that we can just by, by getting people together for, for some simple gathering, breaking bread, looking at these words that that can be agency, that can restore hope, that can get people moving. That to me was just like, oh, we got to do this. We got to do it.
[00:12:33:04] Pastor Becca Messman: And. Yeah, I think there is that idea without a vision the people perish. And I and just seeing that people just tell me what to do. Where's the church. What should we do. Where the faith leaders, faith leaders should do something. And we know that the the best conversations happen in real life. They happen when folks are willing to be vulnerable and so to imagine. And we did our first cohort meeting this morning. So I'm really glad to be talking to you today about 12 different clergy people coming together, talking about the Declaration of Independence. Some people said, what? I didn't realize how long it's been since I read this thing. I don't know if I have read the whole thing. Some people said, and then they went. It's feeling very current. And it also presumes a kind of religious identity to make it go that. I wonder if people in our country would still have, like, do they still presume these truths to be self-evident? Is there a supreme judge in a lot of people's minds? So it opened up a lot of deeply religious questions, that then faith leaders could wrestle with and take on as like, this is our responsibility.
[00:13:48:14] Wilk Wilkinson: Yeah. There's a lot there's an I mean there's just so much to unpack there and so many, so many questions that I had so many questions that I get asked. But, but when we think about when we think about, multi-faith communities and how, what role the clergy plays in, say, whether it be the bridge building of this thing or, or how we can bring this thing to our, our respective, whether it be synagogues or a congregation at our church or, or or what? And then and then the idea of, of doing that in the context of, of, what are the American ideals? What is our shared civic story, right? How do we take this thing and convince people? But I love what you're talking about here, because the in-person and bringing together that multi-faith community, where there's where there's just a number of different, divides that can be bridged or perceived divides that need to be bridged. when, when I guess I, I'll ask each of you this because I think it's an important question. How was it received on, in each of your respective communities? Because, I mean, there's there's definitely people who who, may, may have, I guess, hesitations or, about this thing or there is a lot of fear, right? I mean, both of you mentioned the concept of fear and how how do we rebuild that sense of agency for something that we fear, something that we feel powerless to, to deal with? I know for me, like a lot of the times when I feel fear, when I feel powerless, I know that there's a bigger plan from the power above. Right. But how did how did your, your respective communities receive that message when you started talking about doing this thing, which I think is absolutely wonderful? Let's start with you, Michael. If you want to kind of kind of tell me, how it was received on, in your community. And then Becca, we'll go to you on that.
[00:15:53:18] Rabbi Michael Holzman: So I think there's a few things that, there's a lot of there's a lot to say about that question. I think there's a few things that we do as, multi-faith communities when we come together. First of all, I think that the human need to call out something greater than ourselves. I think that's universal. I think everybody, when the minute you become aware that life is finite and we're all fragile and and we're all fundamentally a little bit alone in the universe, we want to call out to we want to call out to something greater than the self, to other human beings, and we want to find those, those eternal values that, that connect us. And that's really like the cure for loneliness and so I think that crosses every faith tradition. I don't think that that's particular to any faith. However, the phase every faith has very particular, unique, amazing, powerful, deep, specific ways of calling out. And so when I get to be in the presence of a Christian, of a whole range of denominations, right. I mean, and I and I, and I ask, Becca or our friend, our friend Vernon or our friend Tom, like, or when I ask one of my, our friends to pray to start our meeting. The prayer is so moving because of the, the the integrity and the earnestness of of the calling out that I witness. And even though, that prayer ends in the name of Jesus, that I am not a part of that, that that story, that faith, I'm still moved by, by the depth of feeling and by the, the honesty that's being expressed. Right. So, so we approach this as a multi-faith experience because we don't hide differences of our faiths. In fact, America gave us religious freedom, as what I like to think of as a deal the founders made. They said to the citizens, you can have religious freedom. And in return, with all your different religions, you're going to provide us, a healthy civic culture based in the morals of those different, those different faiths. Right. And, and so, what I think the faith community does when we get together and like, what my community understands is that when we apply our, our theology, our spirituality to our behavior and we do politics, and I'm talking about internal synagogue politics, because anyone who's been to a house of worship knows that the worst politics in the world can be church or synagogue or mosque politics. Right? So, so when we apply our our spirituality and our theology to our behavior at the board meeting or the finance committee meeting or any other meeting, we we we realize just like how much responsibility we have as citizens, I mean, citizens of the synagogue. And that means also citizens of the United States right there. It's the same thing. And so, they love they love thinking about these. The hard, the hard disagreements and questions that are in these documents. These documents raise all kinds of hard questions, and they love approaching that and hearing the ways that people read things differently in the documents. And because we've been doing this for a while, they recognize, oh, this behavior of listening, it's going to spill over when it's when it comes time to argue about the mortgage, So, the listening behavior becomes contagious and it becomes part of the culture.
[00:19:20:17] Wilk Wilkinson: which is hugely important. I mean, that listening have to be.
[00:19:24:18] Pastor Becca Messman: Well, I think it might be helpful for us to say, in a nutshell, what the plan is. You did a beautiful job of talking about the point, like the point is a healthy culture. The point is the language of our faith and the practices, applied so that the whole culture is healthier and moral and calling out to God or whatever name we each use and whatever practices go with that. But the plan is that's often what my when you said, how is it received? People go, okay, I'm in, fix it. How? And so the idea of getting clergy together. Why clergy? Because we often have more time and are good with the way words either help us or harm us. Get clergy together. There are four documents that, Michael and his team have already laid out. So that almost looks like, like a book club or a, Sunday school class. Pick one to study each time, talk about it, and then do that again by bringing all of the congregational, people together around a meal to talk about these documents again. So once the clergy have had a chance to say, what does the Declaration of Independence mean to me? How are we doing on these values? A couple months later, all of those congregations are coming together to do the same thing, and then they're meeting their neighbors in real life. And that really builds the relational, dance floor foundation, whatever you want to call it. So that any kind of celebration we do in July of next year is not just just a performance, it's it's the it's the outcome of this practice that we've been doing. And it's that discipline of we are going to get our calendars out and put these meetings on there. And now we even have a plan that has been extremely well received by the clergy who are like, I will do it. I want to fix this democracy, but I also only have this limited amount of time. And if you're telling me you've already got a plan figured out, I am all in.
[00:21:42:02] Wilk Wilkinson: That's my. That's awesome. So. So let's dive a little bit deeper into, something that you had said, Michael, about listening because there's two places where people, in my experience, that I've found have I have a, very hard time listening to people of, whether it be, different faiths or different politics. Right. that a lot of times people, for whatever reason, their, their guards go up, their ears go closed. They're like, I have my faith. I have my political beliefs. I'm not going to listen to somebody else on the other side or in that other group. Whatever they start the other thing they do, whatever they do, their ears closed. Let's talk a little bit deeper about the listening aspect of this, because listening is such a huge part, part. But whether it be a, a, cultural pluralism, religious pluralism, political pluralism, listening is such a hugely important part of that. So, let's talk a little bit deeper about that, Michael.
[00:22:47:05] Rabbi Michael Holzman: Sure. I mean, I think that, I think that when, when we come across, a difference like in these documents, like said, one of the documents is The New Colossus, right? Which is the poem that Lazarus wrote to raise money for the Statue of Liberty, the pedestal of the Statue of Liberty. Right. When we this the statue itself was a gift that was meant to celebrate the Union victory in the Civil War. And and the that the triumph of liberty. And then Emma Lazarus, who was, a young woman, who was, political activist who worked with immigrants in New York City as and then in the 1880s, as Eastern European Jewish immigrants were beginning to show up and, and really big numbers in the city. The 1880s was also a time when there was like the Chinese Exclusion Act was passed, and there was there was a time when people were really anti-immigrant, and worried about immigration. So we take this poem and obviously it's going to raise people's like red flags, because immigration is a big issue right now in America. I mean, obviously, and people are going to are going to go like they're going to be like they're going to come into like a little vigilant, little wary, afraid. What is someone else going to say? And we just let the words sink in. We do sometimes what we do at Torah study, like sometimes we read a piece of Scripture from, from the Torah, and we just pause and sit in silence and let the words just kind of hang in the air and, like listening to my Lazarus. Right? And give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free. And then we just sit in silence. Sometimes and then we say, what do you feel when you hear these words? Now? What do you think now? What policy do you recommend? Not just just what do you feel? What what's your family? What's your family history with these words? and then sometimes someone will say something like, you can just feel in the air. Other people are like, ooh, I don't I'm not like, I'm not comfortable with that. And the question I like to ask when that, when that happens is like, what? What happened in your life that caused you to come to that, that opinion? Like, where did that conviction come from? And and turn it into an opportunity to learn about the person, to learn about your neighbor, like, I once was, blessed, to hear Tim Keller talk, that great Christian leader and and he said, you can't love your neighbor unless your neighbor. So, if you're going to be true, you so, so sometimes we we use like, tools, like silence, questions about emotion, questions about family. And then the other, like the really, really heavy artillery we bring out when it's when like when it's really tense and we need people to listen, we, and we can feel like people are starting to interrupt each other. We have this habit, that we teach and we, we use in synagogue, which is that we all agree that for the next part of this conversation, we're going to respond to every single person that talks. We're going to respond in unison with the Hebrew word, Shamati, which literally means, I hear you. That's all it means. I hear you. But what that does that one word, but it says three things. The first thing is, it forces everybody to wait. You have to wait until someone's done talking before you try and start talking. Right? You can't interrupt. That's the first thing. The second thing it does is it reminds me. I'm supposed to be listening right now, right? I'm saying Shamati, right? And then the third thing it does, and this is this is probably more powerful for Jews and other people. But Shamati has the same Hebrew root as the word shama. And the shama for us is Deuteronomy chapter six, verse four. It's our credo statement. It's it's our statement of faith in God. Yes, right out of Nyla Hanan. Right. And so when Jews hear, shamar, there's a little part of the subconscious that's like, oh, you're supposed to act like God right now, like you're supposed to. You're supposed to be your highest self when you say this word. Right? So like three things are happening all at the same time. That's the that's the big artillery we bring out when we can, when the, when the tension starts to ratchet up because people are talking about hard topics, we say it's time for Shamati like we got to bring out the the habit of listening and and we so like, what am I doing there? I'm doing silence. I'm doing ritual. I'm doing emotional family, pastoral. These are all different clergy techniques that we use all the time. When we do our our bread and butter religious leadership, we're just applying it to America. That's really all we're doing. Yeah.
[00:27:17:21] Wilk Wilkinson: And so incredibly important. And then Becca as as we think about the, the importance of, of listening and, and the role that clergy plays in, in being that leader, for people, I mean, I can imagine that you've seen some, some pretty tense moments in, in your time and, and, and how when you go into these different situations again, it's this deal where, especially when you start combining the idea of, whether it be the American founding or things like that. And then in this time that we live in now, where so many people have, so many inhibitions about, either saying, what they believe or wanting to believe things that they maybe don't or or, I mean, I've seen so many conflicts with people, whether it be interpersonal conflicts or internal conflicts, things like that. Talk to me. from your perspective the importance of listening and how do you bring out that particular skill? Because I think listening is a skill set that not enough people have now, but they need to build that muscle to listen better.
[00:28:34:04] Pastor Becca Messman: I think that what you just said is at the core of where a lot of the conversations fall apart, because people get so emotional and they start rehearsing what their response is going to be, rather than waiting to see if perhaps there's, there's some sort of tenderness or gift being given to the room. Or maybe people are they wait. They wait before they decide whether the room can even handle what they really think about something, or they evaluate based on what they read in the person's face or their, stickers or whatever, whether this person is already on my team and therefore we can have this conversation. And if they might not be, then we're going to we're going to really wait. We're going to wait and see before there's anything shared, or listen through that filter. So to teach people, I, I think that starting with personal the kind of, off of the, the common talking points questions is the main way to do that. So for example, today, we were talking about the Declaration of Independence, and yet with a bunch of clergy who, maybe they know each other, maybe they don't. The question was, when was a time you had some sort of a, public protest of any kind you pushed back against authority in any way? Could be, at your home or could be in some sort of, civic action. And folks started to share specific stories in their lives about when they stepped out. And some of it was like, wow, I did not know that about you. I didn't know that was your issue. I was surprised I was on the edge of my seat. I was listening and learning, and there wasn't going to be a team with this because it's all individual stories. This is our lived experience. And then it also gave people the space to say, I'm waiting to share because I have not protested before. I've never done that. And I, I should. And so there was vulnerability even for that. And so I think. There was a need for covenanting at the beginning about what the norms are. But it really started with what kind of question was going to lead us off. Like, tell me about something in your life, not, starting intellectually. It was really in your life. Tell me your story. Where are you coming from? And and that just kept us curious rather than kind of ready to, to come back with a response.
[00:31:20:06] Rabbi Michael Holzman: .
[00:31:23:01] Wilk Wilkinson: Yeah, that, the power of storytelling, I that power, the power of storytelling, the power of listening. Neither one can be overstated. They're so huge in what we do. One of the things that that's often talked about in the church that we go to is, behind every story is a name, and every name matters, every person matters. And, whether each of us is willing to be vulnerable enough, as you said, Becca, to to stand up and share our story or, if we don't have a story that fits into this particular thing, are we willing to listen to other people's stories? That takes strength. It takes courage and and to do what? What you all are doing add, Faith250 takes strength. It takes courage to be involved in that takes strength. It takes courage to connect with people of of different faiths, to connect with people who have a different impression of what America is or what it's what it was meant to be or what it's got the possibility of being in the future. That takes faith. It takes courage. It takes strength as individuals and, what you all are doing. And, there's there's so much, so much just power in, in bringing together people of differences, people who may not otherwise interact. I love what you said earlier, about, in Tim Keller's speech, loving your neighbor, means, getting to know them, understanding them. You can't love them if if you're not listening to them. And knowing them and knowing who, who they really are as a human being and trying to to get down to that, that, that spot where, where, where we can at least have a conversation. And so the idea of coming together, breaking bread with people who, who, whose religion we, we, we don't, if we're different faiths, we're different political persuasions. This is this is a wonderful thing. how do we find, or how do people the, the Derate the Hate listeners. All my friends are braver angels. How can we find more about faith 250 and how can they get involved in Faith250? Because I believe faith can, combined with the 250th anniversary of the United States of America, these bringing these worlds together and bringing all the, the multi-faith communities together is going to be a huge part of God's of us as a nation, the United States of America, as a nation. Going forward.
[00:33:59:02] Rabbi Michael Holzman: Well. So we're very fortunate that the URL Faith250 was available. So we we snag that. So Faith250.org is the website. And if you are a member of a church, the most important thing you can or any kind of house of worship, the most important thing you can do is send a message to your pastor, Rabbi, Imam, hey, I heard about this thing on Wilks podcast. I really want you to think about doing it. Go to Faith250.org, and everything's there to explain, to each pastor. And the next step, if you're a pastor and you hear about this or, a clergy, a cleric, is, think about who are the other clerics in your area that you want to spend time with, right? Because because, like I said, this thing starts with four meetings of clergy and four lunches for coffees where we get together and spend time learning about each other. And then we are going to host the clergy, as a team are going to host our congregations. So that's a big group of people, right? You're going to have like four houses of worship or eight houses of worship. That's going be hundreds of people in a room, lots of small groups around tables, sharing dinners, talking about these same documents. Right. And the idea is that that clergy team will eventually host a public ritual open to the local community, at which, at that point, you have hundreds of people who have met each other before, and they know each other a little bit. And so it's not just listening to stories from the past, but what I'm hoping is that a year from now, two years from now, three years from now, people will be telling a story about face to face about what happened on July 4th, 2026, in the middle of a really divisive, campaign season, getting ready for the midterms. In the middle of that, we all took a break and we reaffirmed our commitment to each other as citizens. Right. That's the story I want to be telling my kids, my grandkids, and so forth. And so, if you're an individual and you're not part of a church, maybe you think about finding a church. Find that, find a house of worship, find an institution and see if people there want to do 5050 if you're up, if you're a cleric, go to the website, reach out to your fellow clerics, form a cluster, and next summer, if you're the average citizen and you're listening to this podcast on our website, we hope we hope our goal by next summer is to have a directory of every state in the country with at least one Faith 250 event happening somewhere in that state, maybe multiple 5050 events and maybe a calendar. And you can find one and you can just register on on the website. There'll be a link to go register for that local event. And you can just show up and enjoy. That's the that's the hope or our goal. Our dream is 250 clusters of congregations all over the country.
[00:36:43:14] Wilk Wilkinson: That would be wonderful. And, Becca, why don't you take the final word here?
[00:36:47:22] Rabbi Michael Holzman: How,
[00:36:50:15] Wilk Wilkinson: How do you see, this this, thing thing rounding out, I mean, the the power of this thing here is, is absolutely huge, and and I just go ahead and take the final word on on, what you hope to see, out of this thing.
[00:37:13:04] Pastor Becca Messman: I think, when there is a disaster and neighbors get in boats and they go find their other neighbors, the science has shown that it is the best thing to kind of prevent trauma, because we're acting together and it's the least political time. I mean, people just care about helping that person. We need something like that for our culture, for our language, for our faith communities. And this is like getting in these boats together and and going and finding whoever wants to get in. Who can we help? Who can we? How can we rescue the words that we carry, that we care about so much? And I think every faith tradition has some sort of image of a beautiful meal, of a great table, or a grand banquet, or a joyful feast that is exciting to me. And I feel hungry for that.
[00:38:06:18] Wilk Wilkinson: I am hungry for that as well. And, yeah, you're absolutely right. Breaking bread together is one of the best ways, that we, we as citizens, we, we we in our faith communities, can kind of work through our differences. And I am so grateful, the two of you, Pastor Becca and, Rabbi Michael Holzman, thank you so much for joining me here on the Derate the Hate podcast. Be blessed. And, Faith 250.org is where people can find out more about this incredible, incredible movement. And, I look forward to following the progress. Thank you so much for joining me.
[00:38:41:14] Rabbi Michael Holzman: Yeah, really honored to be here. Thank you.
[00:38:44:11] Pastor Becca Messman: Yeah. Thank you. We're grateful for all the work you're doing as well.
[00:38:52:14] Wilk Wilkinson:
Friends, I want to thank you so much for tuning in. And if there's anything in this episode that provided exceptional value to you, please make sure to hit that share button. If you haven't done so already, please be sure to subscribe to get the Derate The Hate podcast sent to your email inbox every week. We really are better together, so please take a moment to visit Braver angels.org and consider joining the movement towards civic renewal and bridging our political divides. This is Wilk wrapping up for the week saying get out there. Be kind to one another. Be grateful for everything you've got. And remember, it's up to you to make every day the day that you want it to be. With that, my friends, I'm going to back on out of here and we will catch you
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