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Jeff Schoep’s name may once have been associated with America’s largest neo-Nazi group, but today, he’s known for something entirely different—helping people escape hate and reclaim their humanity.
In this deeply revealing conversation, Wilk welcomes Jeff back to the DTH podcast to discuss his new memoir, "American Nazi: From Hate to Humanity." The book isn’t just a retelling of his violent past—it’s a cautionary tale, a redemption story, and a call to action.
🟩 Jeff’s early attraction to Nazism and his rise to NSM leadership
🟩 The internal and external violence he experienced—including assassination attempts
🟩 How transformative relationships and personal reckoning changed his life
🟩 Why identity politics and fear can radicalize individuals across the spectrum
🟩 His mission to educate, rehabilitate, and offer a path out for others trapped in hate
Jeff's story is proof that no one is beyond redemption. His honesty and humility show us the transformative power of accountability and compassion.
🎯 Whether you're trying to understand the mechanics of radicalization or looking for hope in humanity, this episode delivers.
🛑 Don’t forget to grab a copy of Jeff’s book, "American Nazi: From Hate to Humanity," and visit JeffSchoep.com for more on his work.
👉 Join the conversation, share this episode, and help spread the message that change is possible.
🎧As Perceptions Shift, Realities Transform - DTH Episode 214 with Daryl Davis and Jeff Schoep
🎧Nazis at the Turning Point USA event: DTH Quickshot with Jeff Schoep
🎧Episode 70: Redemption for Radicals, Shifting the Paradigm
#JeffSchoep #AmericanNazi #Deradicalization #HateToHumanity #Radicalism #Extremism #IdentityPolitics #Memoir #Redemption #NeoNazi #FormerExtremist
The world is a better place if we are better people. That begins with each of us as individuals. Be kind to one another. Be grateful for all you’ve got. Make every day the day that you want it to be!
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*The views expressed by Wilk, his guest hosts &/or guests on the Derate The Hate podcast are their own and should not be attributed to any organization they may otherwise be affiliated with.
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Wilk Wilkinson
Welcome back, my friends, to the Derate the Hate podcast. I am your host, Wilk Wilkinson, your blue collar sage calming outrage and helping to navigate a world divided by FOG, and those who would spread that fear, outrage and grievance. Each week I'm sharing stories from my path and using the power of conversation and collaboration with my many great guests.
00:00:43:17 - 00:01:07:23
Wilk Wilkinson
Together, we chart a course toward understanding, bridging divides and fostering a community where wisdom prevails over discord. Friends, it really is about bettering the world. One attitude at a time. We did not create the hate, but together we can Derate the hate. The only good thing about a bad attitude is we have the ability as individuals to change it.
00:01:08:01 - 00:01:31:03
Wilk Wilkinson
For me, it starts with gratitude and personal accountability. I am so incredibly grateful that you have taken the time to join me for another powerful episode. Please remember to subscribe and share the podcast with your network of friends. If you would like to support the show, check out the Support Us page on the Derate the Hate website. With that, my friends, let's get to it.
00:01:31:03 - 00:02:02:05
Wilk Wilkinson
My guest this week is no stranger to the Derate The Hate audience. Jeff Schoep, once the leader of the largest neo-Nazi organization in America, is now one of the world's most sought after voices in deradicalization and counter extremism. Jeff has joined me on this podcast before to talk about his transformation, but this conversation takes things even deeper. He's just released his powerful new memoir titled “American Nazi From Hate to Humanity”.
00:02:02:07 - 00:02:35:21
Wilk Wilkinson
The title alone is intentionally provocative and for good reason. In this episode, Jeff opens up about the personal journey that took him from a violent underworld of radical extremism to a path of redemption, healing and service. We dive into what initially drew him to Nazism, his rapid rise to leadership in the National Socialist movement, and the deeply painful experiences that started to crack the armor of hate he had built around himself.
00:02:35:21 - 00:03:12:15
Wilk Wilkinson
From surviving assassination attempts to forging unexpected relationships that helped change his worldview, Jeff's story is raw. It's real and necessary. But this isn't about Jeff's past. It's about a sobering look at how identity politics and unchecked fear can serve as gateways to radicalism, regardless of ideology. Jeff now uses his story to help others break free from extremist beliefs, and in doing so, he's making powerful strides in the fight against hate in all of its forms.
00:03:12:17 - 00:03:20:05
Wilk Wilkinson
Get ready friends. This conversation is about darkness, redemption, and the urgent need for understanding
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Wilk Wilkinson
in an increasingly divided world. Here we go.
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Wilk Wilkinson
Jeff Schoep, man. How are you, brother? It's,
00:03:27:22 - 00:03:31:16
Wilk Wilkinson
It's good to see you. Welcome back to the Derate The Hate podcast.
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Jeff Schoep
Hey, thanks for having me on again, Wilk, It's an honor.
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Wilk Wilkinson
Yeah. It's always good to see you, my friend.
00:03:36:15 - 00:03:39:03
Wilk Wilkinson
We haven't done anything in a little while, and,
00:03:39:03 - 00:03:44:19
Wilk Wilkinson
And just so the listeners know, you've got a book that's coming out soon.
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Wilk Wilkinson
I believe in,
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Wilk Wilkinson
sometime in late June of this year. You'll have a, a new book coming out. And I wanted to bring you on to to highlight that book.
00:03:53:15 - 00:03:54:20
Wilk Wilkinson
it looks like an incredible,
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Wilk Wilkinson
story, an account of of your life. From
00:03:57:12 - 00:03:59:05
Wilk Wilkinson
what I'm seeing. And,
00:03:59:05 - 00:04:00:09
Wilk Wilkinson
I just wanted to bring in,
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Wilk Wilkinson
again here on the podcast to to,
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Wilk Wilkinson
see what's been going on with you. Talk about the book.
00:04:06:09 - 00:04:11:02
Wilk Wilkinson
I know you've been doing an incredible amount of, traveling around, speaking,
00:04:11:02 - 00:04:13:09
Wilk Wilkinson
working with the Simon Wiesenthal Center.
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Wilk Wilkinson
Things like that. So we'll,
00:04:14:17 - 00:04:16:13
Wilk Wilkinson
we'll get a handle on all that and,
00:04:16:13 - 00:04:20:02
Wilk Wilkinson
see what's going on. So thanks again, man. I appreciate you joining me today.
00:04:20:02 - 00:04:21:21
Jeff Schoep
So thank you.
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Wilk Wilkinson
Yeah. So all right, so Jeff, the,
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Wilk Wilkinson
the book, the the book that's coming out and, anybody who's been listening to the podcast for a while,
00:04:32:21 - 00:04:37:21
Wilk Wilkinson
knows you already. You've, you've, you've guest hosted an episode for me. You've been a guest on the,
00:04:37:21 - 00:04:41:04
Wilk Wilkinson
on the podcast here 3 or 4 times. And,
00:04:41:04 - 00:04:43:02
Wilk Wilkinson
we've we've done a number of things together.
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Wilk Wilkinson
So,
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Wilk Wilkinson
just quick backstory,
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Wilk Wilkinson
Jeff Schoep, former
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Wilk Wilkinson
radical,
00:04:48:18 - 00:04:51:17
Wilk Wilkinson
American neo-Nazi, somebody who has,
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Wilk Wilkinson
basically worked,
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Wilk Wilkinson
through a lot of those past indiscretions and now has become one of the, most sought after,
00:05:00:16 - 00:05:02:08
Wilk Wilkinson
deradicalization,
00:05:02:08 - 00:05:09:08
Wilk Wilkinson
experts in the nation. Right. And now you've got a book coming out about it called American Nazi From Hate to Humanity,
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Wilk Wilkinson
which is a fantastic,
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Wilk Wilkinson
way to put it. Hate to humanity. And,
00:05:14:01 - 00:05:19:04
Wilk Wilkinson
and, Jeff, let's start by well, let's start with the title.
00:05:19:04 - 00:05:26:17
Wilk Wilkinson
Let's, let's start with the title and how you came up with that title and what people are going to find in this book.
00:05:26:19 - 00:05:28:12
Jeff Schoep
So, thank you again. And,
00:05:28:12 - 00:05:36:21
Jeff Schoep
so the title American Nazi From Hate to Humanity, I felt like using the, the N-word in the title was, was,
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Jeff Schoep
marketing,
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Jeff Schoep
idea basically because,
00:05:39:04 - 00:05:48:12
Jeff Schoep
that's one of those things where if you're walking by and you see that on the bookshelf, you see that out there, or you're thumbing through stuff online, you got to stop and look because it's ugly.
00:05:48:18 - 00:05:50:10
Jeff Schoep
It's hateful, it's ugly.
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Jeff Schoep
Everybody knows what Nazi is. So,
00:05:52:16 - 00:05:53:23
Jeff Schoep
you look at that and then you see,
00:05:53:23 - 00:06:04:01
Jeff Schoep
from hate to humanity with American Nazi, you know, this this is. I got to see what this is. I need to pick this up and take a look at it. And basically what it is, is a memoir.
00:06:04:01 - 00:06:06:17
Jeff Schoep
I go through starting at the beginning.
00:06:06:17 - 00:06:08:15
Jeff Schoep
Well, it starts with a flash forward,
00:06:08:15 - 00:06:14:01
Jeff Schoep
and which is a pretty violent chapter of, of an experience that, took place and,
00:06:14:01 - 00:06:15:09
Jeff Schoep
dealing with somebody that had,
00:06:15:09 - 00:06:17:08
Jeff Schoep
tried to set me up to get murdered and,
00:06:17:08 - 00:06:19:16
Jeff Schoep
so that's, that's how the book starts out, and it's,
00:06:19:16 - 00:06:21:11
Jeff Schoep
pretty violent. And,
00:06:21:11 - 00:06:23:02
Jeff Schoep
you know, we just dive right into it.
00:06:23:02 - 00:06:23:14
Jeff Schoep
And then
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Jeff Schoep
after the flash forward, we go,
00:06:26:12 - 00:06:31:10
Jeff Schoep
into it starts at the beginning and goes through my childhood and then into,
00:06:31:10 - 00:06:33:10
Jeff Schoep
some of the things that took place,
00:06:33:10 - 00:06:37:19
Jeff Schoep
the rise into leading the National Socialist movement and,
00:06:37:19 - 00:06:40:22
Jeff Schoep
my life involved in that, in that world. So,
00:06:40:22 - 00:06:42:02
Jeff Schoep
it's pretty violent.
00:06:42:02 - 00:06:42:21
Jeff Schoep
It's a pretty violent,
00:06:42:21 - 00:06:44:05
Jeff Schoep
book. And,
00:06:44:05 - 00:06:44:21
Jeff Schoep
a lot of,
00:06:44:21 - 00:06:50:07
Jeff Schoep
a lot of emotion. It took a lot of time to write it. I put a lot of time,
00:06:50:07 - 00:06:57:22
Jeff Schoep
years it took to write it, because originally, when I got it done, it was like 800 pages or something. 6 or 8
00:06:57:22 - 00:07:03:13
Jeff Schoep
pages. It was a family long, and I started shopping it around to different,
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Jeff Schoep
book agents and,
00:07:04:15 - 00:07:05:23
Jeff Schoep
literary agents and,
00:07:05:23 - 00:07:09:03
Jeff Schoep
they were all like, this is double the length it should be.
00:07:09:05 - 00:07:11:21
Jeff Schoep
So it took another year to, to kind of,
00:07:11:21 - 00:07:13:14
Jeff Schoep
decide which chapters,
00:07:13:14 - 00:07:25:01
Jeff Schoep
were not really necessary which, which could be shortened up and then got it down to size and then started shopping it around again. And at that point and I started getting offers like crazy,
00:07:25:01 - 00:07:27:08
Jeff Schoep
people were interested in the story and, and,
00:07:27:08 - 00:07:30:01
Jeff Schoep
I found a publisher rather quickly that,
00:07:30:01 - 00:07:32:21
Jeff Schoep
took on the they took on the book and,
00:07:32:21 - 00:07:34:14
Jeff Schoep
they said, this is such an important story.
00:07:34:14 - 00:07:44:23
Jeff Schoep
We've got to rush it out because typically it takes a couple of years. Once you you get a book deal and it takes at least a year, maybe two years sometimes before it comes out. And,
00:07:44:23 - 00:07:53:16
Jeff Schoep
I had secured the publisher in January of this year, and the book is coming out June 24th. So they put a rush on it and it is,
00:07:53:16 - 00:07:55:00
Jeff Schoep
it's coming out.
00:07:55:06 - 00:07:57:12
Jeff Schoep
So it's pretty exciting.
00:07:57:14 - 00:07:59:11
Wilk Wilkinson
Yeah. That's incredible man. And,
00:07:59:11 - 00:08:03:13
Wilk Wilkinson
yeah, I, I've got to agree with him. I mean, it it's an incredibly important story.
00:08:03:13 - 00:08:04:08
Wilk Wilkinson
You know, you and I have,
00:08:04:08 - 00:08:06:21
Wilk Wilkinson
had had so many conversations about,
00:08:06:21 - 00:08:09:15
Wilk Wilkinson
about your backstory and how,
00:08:09:15 - 00:08:14:06
Wilk Wilkinson
I guess the the fascination as a, as a young
00:08:14:06 - 00:08:18:05
Wilk Wilkinson
child and, and growing up, that fascination with the,
00:08:18:05 - 00:08:21:14
Wilk Wilkinson
the Nazis and the in the Third Reich and, and,
00:08:21:14 - 00:08:26:00
Wilk Wilkinson
and then just, just the, the ugliness that came along with it.
00:08:26:00 - 00:08:26:18
Wilk Wilkinson
But then,
00:08:26:18 - 00:08:35:05
Wilk Wilkinson
and then so, so remind me, Jeff, or remind me, remind the listeners. What? How old were you when,
00:08:35:05 - 00:08:42:07
Wilk Wilkinson
you first actually became affiliated with the National Socialist Movement? And then when,
00:08:42:07 - 00:08:47:16
Wilk Wilkinson
at what age did you actually take control as a leader of the,
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Wilk Wilkinson
NSM?
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Jeff Schoep
So, I mean, the fascination with Nazi ism started when I was in about fourth grade. My grandfather fought in the,
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Jeff Schoep
Hitler's army during World War two. My great uncle Spot,
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Jeff Schoep
my mother came over from Germany, and my grandparents did as well after the war. And,
00:09:02:15 - 00:09:10:09
Jeff Schoep
by the time I joined the movement at around 18 and within a couple of years, I was I was running the organization,
00:09:10:09 - 00:09:13:18
Jeff Schoep
by 20, 21, somewhere around that age.
00:09:13:18 - 00:09:14:14
Jeff Schoep
So,
00:09:14:14 - 00:09:18:01
Jeff Schoep
it was a rather quick rise up through the ranks and, and,
00:09:18:01 - 00:09:18:07
Jeff Schoep
so,
00:09:18:07 - 00:09:22:13
Jeff Schoep
detailing some of the things that took place during that time, everything from,
00:09:22:13 - 00:09:24:23
Jeff Schoep
law enforcement set ups and, and,
00:09:24:23 - 00:09:32:08
Jeff Schoep
infiltration to some of the internal violence in the group, some of the fighting in the streets with,
00:09:32:08 - 00:09:33:15
Jeff Schoep
antifa, and,
00:09:33:15 - 00:09:36:00
Jeff Schoep
things of that nature and, and it's really,
00:09:36:00 - 00:09:36:14
Jeff Schoep
I took,
00:09:36:14 - 00:09:41:00
Jeff Schoep
care to change names and everything like that, so nobody's being doxxed or anything.
00:09:41:00 - 00:09:53:00
Jeff Schoep
You know, there's a few public figures that are named in there, but, most the vast majority of the people, everything that that's named is I've changed names and things like that to protect people's privacy. So that was that was important to me,
00:09:53:00 - 00:09:59:21
Jeff Schoep
in, in telling the story. And it's not all just a retelling of old horrors and terrible things that happened.
00:10:00:02 - 00:10:02:05
Jeff Schoep
You know, there is a redemptive arc, as you know,
00:10:02:05 - 00:10:07:23
Jeff Schoep
I felt like that was really important to include, you know, not just tell how it was, but,
00:10:07:23 - 00:10:09:18
Jeff Schoep
how I got out and, and,
00:10:09:18 - 00:10:11:18
Jeff Schoep
and the change and, and heading towards,
00:10:11:18 - 00:10:14:22
Jeff Schoep
you know, the good work and things that I'm doing now as well.
00:10:15:00 - 00:10:18:09
Wilk Wilkinson
Yeah. No. And I think that's hugely important. I mean,
00:10:18:09 - 00:10:20:19
Wilk Wilkinson
I mean, obviously there,
00:10:20:19 - 00:10:35:05
Wilk Wilkinson
you know, this this would this would definitely not be complete without knowing about the, the catalysts or the, the you know, I know it wasn't just one, but the, you know, obviously the most influential catalyst,
00:10:35:05 - 00:10:36:19
Wilk Wilkinson
for your transformation,
00:10:36:19 - 00:10:40:20
Wilk Wilkinson
was your, your now relationship with Daryl Davis and how that got started.
00:10:40:20 - 00:10:41:20
Wilk Wilkinson
And, and,
00:10:41:20 - 00:10:48:09
Wilk Wilkinson
if anybody wants to relive that, that episode where I had Daryl and you on talking about the,
00:10:48:09 - 00:10:50:02
Wilk Wilkinson
the meeting at the diner for,
00:10:50:02 - 00:10:51:16
Wilk Wilkinson
accidental courtesy,
00:10:51:16 - 00:10:55:14
Wilk Wilkinson
a that's an incredible episode. They can step back and and the,
00:10:55:14 - 00:10:59:03
Wilk Wilkinson
the link to that episode will obviously be in the show notes for this,
00:10:59:03 - 00:11:00:18
Wilk Wilkinson
this episode, but, yeah, just
00:11:00:18 - 00:11:02:07
Wilk Wilkinson
an incredible tale.
00:11:02:09 - 00:11:07:04
Wilk Wilkinson
Heartfelt tale and and how to two unlikely people,
00:11:07:04 - 00:11:11:21
Wilk Wilkinson
became such close friends. And you guys are like brothers now and and,
00:11:11:21 - 00:11:16:17
Wilk Wilkinson
yeah. Yeah. Daryl is an incredible figure. Let's talk a little bit about,
00:11:16:17 - 00:11:24:15
Wilk Wilkinson
you know, you said you go into, in the book, Jeff, you go into to some of the,
00:11:24:15 - 00:11:28:01
Wilk Wilkinson
the uglier tales, the ugly side of,
00:11:28:01 - 00:11:31:05
Wilk Wilkinson
of that, that radical lifestyle and,
00:11:31:05 - 00:11:33:00
Wilk Wilkinson
some of the infighting.
00:11:33:02 - 00:11:43:09
Wilk Wilkinson
I know you and I have talked a lot about the, the paranoia that came along with, with being in the movement and, and how that worked.
00:11:43:09 - 00:11:50:19
Wilk Wilkinson
And then and then this culminated in, in people actually trying to to set you up to be murdered.
00:11:50:19 - 00:11:54:16
Wilk Wilkinson
Let's let's unpack a few of those things a little bit more because,
00:11:54:16 - 00:11:57:02
Wilk Wilkinson
I mean, I think that's, that's going to be,
00:11:57:02 - 00:12:04:19
Wilk Wilkinson
important for people to understand that, that this is not any kind of a, a glamorous lifestyle.
00:12:04:19 - 00:12:12:02
Wilk Wilkinson
There's not a lot of smiles and, and happy times. This is all just a whole bunch of ugly. So let's
00:12:12:02 - 00:12:13:04
Wilk Wilkinson
unpack a, a little bit of,
00:12:13:04 - 00:12:15:11
Wilk Wilkinson
of that for me. Would you say?
00:12:15:13 - 00:12:16:02
Jeff Schoep
Yeah.
00:12:16:02 - 00:12:21:20
Jeff Schoep
I'm trying to think of where to even begin because there's so much. And there was, there was so much that I didn't include as well. But,
00:12:21:20 - 00:12:24:15
Jeff Schoep
one thing, that one thing that really stands out was,
00:12:24:15 - 00:12:26:16
Jeff Schoep
one of the assassination attempts.
00:12:26:16 - 00:12:30:06
Jeff Schoep
I say one of them, there's there was several, but,
00:12:30:06 - 00:12:31:12
Jeff Schoep
one in particular,
00:12:31:12 - 00:12:34:02
Jeff Schoep
where I was struck in the back of the head with a tire iron.
00:12:34:02 - 00:12:37:22
Jeff Schoep
And I still have the scars today from that. And that happened back in the 90s. But,
00:12:37:22 - 00:12:41:20
Jeff Schoep
it was someone that had infiltrated the organization. And,
00:12:41:20 - 00:12:43:08
Jeff Schoep
and I do tell this, this,
00:12:43:08 - 00:12:46:00
Jeff Schoep
story in the book, so I won't give it all away, but,
00:12:46:00 - 00:12:46:23
Jeff Schoep
it was,
00:12:46:23 - 00:12:51:07
Jeff Schoep
you know, they had come in and pretended to be involved in an organization.
00:12:51:10 - 00:12:54:10
Jeff Schoep
The one one individual did, and the other individual was,
00:12:54:10 - 00:13:01:02
Jeff Schoep
a guest, you know, somebody that had he had brought along for us to go pass out literature that that evening in,
00:13:01:02 - 00:13:03:17
Jeff Schoep
Rochester, Minnesota, actually. And,
00:13:03:17 - 00:13:05:10
Jeff Schoep
we had went down there and,
00:13:05:10 - 00:13:06:12
Jeff Schoep
come back and,
00:13:06:12 - 00:13:15:09
Jeff Schoep
and the guy struck me in the back of the head as I was bending down into the trunk of a vehicle, struck me in the back of the head with one of those four prong tire iron.
00:13:15:12 - 00:13:16:00
Jeff Schoep
And,
00:13:16:00 - 00:13:19:11
Jeff Schoep
as he hit me, you know, it was anti-Nazi or,
00:13:19:11 - 00:13:25:17
Jeff Schoep
anti. It was, anti-racist action back then. It was before Antifa. But,
00:13:25:17 - 00:13:42:01
Jeff Schoep
struck me in the back of the head and said, we're here. We're here to kill you. And lucky for me, I didn't get knocked out. And I just remember everything, like Flash White, you know, like, I didn't even know what happened because I was bending down into the trunk to reach a box of merchandise that we had brought along.
00:13:42:03 - 00:13:54:10
Jeff Schoep
And as I bent down, that's when he hit me and said, you know, anti-Nazi. We're here to anti-Nazi League or Antifa, whatever. He said, we're here to kill you. And,
00:13:54:10 - 00:13:56:13
Jeff Schoep
the guy that was with me, my roommate,
00:13:56:13 - 00:14:03:15
Jeff Schoep
he blocked a second hit, which I didn't find that out until afterwards, but he had blocked the second hit of the guy would have hit me again.
00:14:03:15 - 00:14:05:19
Jeff Schoep
I would have been dead for sure.
00:14:05:19 - 00:14:07:03
Jeff Schoep
It split my head open.
00:14:07:03 - 00:14:21:14
Jeff Schoep
I remember stumbling backwards after getting hit and putting my hand to the back of my head, and it felt like a wet sponge, like pressing into a wet sponge because my whole scalp was hanging down the back of my head. It was.
00:14:21:14 - 00:14:26:22
Jeff Schoep
It's you hear about people being scalped back in the, you know, old West days.
00:14:27:00 - 00:14:35:10
Jeff Schoep
I actually know what that feels like because my head, my skin off the back of my head was all hanging down and it was still open to call. It was it was,
00:14:35:10 - 00:14:37:02
Jeff Schoep
brutal. And,
00:14:37:02 - 00:14:38:03
Jeff Schoep
so that that,
00:14:38:03 - 00:14:40:21
Jeff Schoep
experiences in there along with,
00:14:40:21 - 00:14:46:22
Jeff Schoep
a number of other another, other incidents that took place like that. But that's, that's just, that's just one.
00:14:46:22 - 00:14:59:20
Jeff Schoep
That's why I say I don't even know where to start, because there's so many things like that that took place. And as you said, very well, there's there's nothing glamorous about being involved in this and the fact that I'm still alive today. I consider a miracle.
00:14:59:20 - 00:15:09:15
Jeff Schoep
So if there's young people out there that are looking at these groups thinking they're cool or they should be involved in it, the fact that I'm here today, I feel like it's a miracle in and of itself because,
00:15:09:15 - 00:15:11:04
Jeff Schoep
most people don't make it that long.
00:15:11:04 - 00:15:11:16
Jeff Schoep
And,
00:15:11:16 - 00:15:15:14
Jeff Schoep
after 27 years and especially being in the position that I was,
00:15:15:14 - 00:15:23:09
Jeff Schoep
a lot of this stuff, I even in my talks, you know, that I do I haven't brought this stuff up because I was waiting for the book to come out and to share some of these,
00:15:23:09 - 00:15:25:09
Jeff Schoep
memories and things like that, that,
00:15:25:09 - 00:15:27:04
Jeff Schoep
that took place over the years.
00:15:27:06 - 00:15:28:06
Jeff Schoep
00:15:28:08 - 00:15:28:15
Wilk Wilkinson
Yeah., Yeah.
00:15:28:15 - 00:15:29:13
Wilk Wilkinson
it's.
00:15:29:15 - 00:15:30:08
Jeff Schoep
Just.
00:15:30:10 - 00:15:33:01
Wilk Wilkinson
When you when you live a life of hate,
00:15:33:01 - 00:15:36:03
Wilk Wilkinson
there. Well, there's nothing positive,
00:15:36:03 - 00:15:37:06
Wilk Wilkinson
that's, that's going to,
00:15:37:06 - 00:15:38:21
Wilk Wilkinson
come of that and,
00:15:38:21 - 00:15:41:15
Wilk Wilkinson
I see so many people today,
00:15:41:15 - 00:15:44:18
Wilk Wilkinson
that are just consumed by hate. Hate for
00:15:44:18 - 00:15:46:03
Wilk Wilkinson
people that they,
00:15:46:03 - 00:15:50:05
Wilk Wilkinson
Often people that they do not know, they don't know anything about.
00:15:50:05 - 00:15:54:04
Wilk Wilkinson
And, and I know our friend Daryl talks a lot about that. How ignorance,
00:15:54:04 - 00:16:03:00
Wilk Wilkinson
is, is one of the, the leading drivers of of fear. And and then that fear is what leads to the hate. You know, it's just that that that we don't know,
00:16:03:00 - 00:16:14:13
Wilk Wilkinson
is often a leading driver for that hate. So, so then, you know, as you were, as you were going through the several years, Jeff, of,
00:16:14:13 - 00:16:15:10
Wilk Wilkinson
leading this,
00:16:15:10 - 00:16:20:03
Wilk Wilkinson
you know, Nazi, American neo-Nazi organization.
00:16:20:05 - 00:16:24:00
Wilk Wilkinson
You know what? I guess what,
00:16:24:23 - 00:16:29:15
Wilk Wilkinson
kept you going in this? I mean, because,
00:16:29:15 - 00:16:31:19
Wilk Wilkinson
again, well, for me,
00:16:31:19 - 00:16:46:19
Wilk Wilkinson
I mean, the constant anger, the hate, the things like that, that stuff is exhausting. What was it the do you think that that drove you to keep going for so long in that organization?
00:16:46:21 - 00:16:47:23
Wilk Wilkinson
And then now
00:16:47:23 - 00:17:03:04
Wilk Wilkinson
being somebody who who is actively or one of the most active people working towards deradicalization, how do you use the,
00:17:03:04 - 00:17:10:19
Wilk Wilkinson
guess my question is, how do you use whatever that driving force was then
00:17:10:19 - 00:17:20:04
Wilk Wilkinson
as a tool to then do what you do now in the de-radicalization space? Does that make sense?
00:17:20:06 - 00:17:39:13
Jeff Schoep
Okay. So yeah, it's a basically it's a reverse osmosis process. So it's the same skill set that I used for the wrong things to bring people into that movement. I use now to help get people out. So it's like I was the venom, I was the poison. Now I'm the antidote.
00:17:39:13 - 00:17:43:07
Jeff Schoep
That's the way I see it. And it's just repurposing a mission, you know,
00:17:43:07 - 00:17:45:20
Jeff Schoep
how I stayed so long is,
00:17:45:20 - 00:17:49:06
Jeff Schoep
looking back, you know, I wish I wouldn't have.
00:17:49:06 - 00:18:10:16
Jeff Schoep
Obviously. You know, there's a lot of regret, guilt and shame, but what the driving force was is that I believed I was doing something honorable and noble, you know, and it was a having a purpose and that mission in life. So I came once I realized it was wrong, what I was doing and that it was, wasn't something that I should be a part over then anybody should be a part of.
00:18:10:16 - 00:18:13:11
Jeff Schoep
I felt like, you know, how can I fix this? And,
00:18:13:11 - 00:18:17:06
Jeff Schoep
you know, that led to the work that I'm, that I'm doing today. So,
00:18:17:06 - 00:18:21:02
Jeff Schoep
having that mission and purpose is just it's just been,
00:18:21:02 - 00:18:30:09
Jeff Schoep
reverse osmosis and now now doing good with that same skill set, because that's
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