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Show Notes

Send Wilk a text with your feedback!

 🎙️ From Hate to Humanity: Jeff Schoep's Journey Out of Extremism 

Jeff Schoep’s name may once have been associated with America’s largest neo-Nazi group, but today, he’s known for something entirely different—helping people escape hate and reclaim their humanity.

In this deeply revealing conversation, Wilk welcomes Jeff back to the DTH podcast to discuss his new memoir, "American Nazi: From Hate to Humanity." The book isn’t just a retelling of his violent past—it’s a cautionary tale, a redemption story, and a call to action.

Topics Covered in This Episode:

🟩 Jeff’s early attraction to Nazism and his rise to NSM leadership
🟩 The internal and external violence he experienced—including assassination attempts
🟩 How transformative relationships and personal reckoning changed his life
🟩 Why identity politics and fear can radicalize individuals across the spectrum
🟩 His mission to educate, rehabilitate, and offer a path out for others trapped in hate

Jeff's story is proof that no one is beyond redemption. His honesty and humility show us the transformative power of accountability and compassion.

🎯 Whether you're trying to understand the mechanics of radicalization or looking for hope in humanity, this episode delivers.

🛑 Don’t forget to grab a copy of Jeff’s book, "American Nazi: From Hate to Humanity," and visit JeffSchoep.com for more on his work.

👉 Join the conversation, share this episode, and help spread the message that change is possible.

Previous DTH Episodes with Jeff Schoep:

🎧As Perceptions Shift, Realities Transform - DTH Episode 214 with Daryl Davis and Jeff Schoep

🎧Nazis at the Turning Point USA event: DTH Quickshot with Jeff Schoep

🎧Episode 70: Redemption for Radicals, Shifting the Paradigm

 

#JeffSchoep #AmericanNazi #Deradicalization #HateToHumanity #Radicalism #Extremism #IdentityPolitics #Memoir #Redemption #NeoNazi #FormerExtremist 

The world is a better place if we are better people. That begins with each of us as individuals. Be kind to one another. Be grateful for all you’ve got. Make every day the day that you want it to be!

Please follow The Derate The Hate podcast on:

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Subscribe to us wherever you enjoy your audio or from our site. Please leave us a rating and feedback on Apple podcasts or other platforms. You can share your thoughts or request Wilk for a speaking engagement on our contact page: DerateTheHate.com/Contact

The Derate The Hate podcast is proudly produced in collaboration with Braver Angels — America’s largest grassroots, cross-partisan organization working toward civic renewal and bridging partisan divides. Learn more: BraverAngels.org

Welcome to the Derate The Hate Podcast!

*The views expressed by Wilk, his guest hosts &/or guests on the Derate The Hate podcast are their own and should not be attributed to any organization they may otherwise be affiliated with.

Show Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:43:15

Wilk Wilkinson

Welcome back, my friends, to the Derate the Hate podcast. I am your host, Wilk Wilkinson, your blue collar sage calming outrage and helping to navigate a world divided by FOG, and those who would spread that fear, outrage and grievance. Each week I'm sharing stories from my path and using the power of conversation and collaboration with my many great guests.

 

00:00:43:17 - 00:01:07:23

Wilk Wilkinson

Together, we chart a course toward understanding, bridging divides and fostering a community where wisdom prevails over discord. Friends, it really is about bettering the world. One attitude at a time. We did not create the hate, but together we can Derate the hate. The only good thing about a bad attitude is we have the ability as individuals to change it.

 

00:01:08:01 - 00:01:31:03

Wilk Wilkinson

For me, it starts with gratitude and personal accountability. I am so incredibly grateful that you have taken the time to join me for another powerful episode. Please remember to subscribe and share the podcast with your network of friends. If you would like to support the show, check out the Support Us page on the Derate the Hate website. With that, my friends, let's get to it.

 

00:01:31:03 - 00:02:02:05

Wilk Wilkinson

My guest this week is no stranger to the Derate The Hate audience. Jeff Schoep, once the leader of the largest neo-Nazi organization in America, is now one of the world's most sought after voices in deradicalization and counter extremism. Jeff has joined me on this podcast before to talk about his transformation, but this conversation takes things even deeper. He's just released his powerful new memoir titled “American Nazi From Hate to Humanity”.

 

00:02:02:07 - 00:02:35:21

Wilk Wilkinson

The title alone is intentionally provocative and for good reason. In this episode, Jeff opens up about the personal journey that took him from a violent underworld of radical extremism to a path of redemption, healing and service. We dive into what initially drew him to Nazism, his rapid rise to leadership in the National Socialist movement, and the deeply painful experiences that started to crack the armor of hate he had built around himself.

 

00:02:35:21 - 00:03:12:15

Wilk Wilkinson

From surviving assassination attempts to forging unexpected relationships that helped change his worldview, Jeff's story is raw. It's real and necessary. But this isn't about Jeff's past. It's about a sobering look at how identity politics and unchecked fear can serve as gateways to radicalism, regardless of ideology. Jeff now uses his story to help others break free from extremist beliefs, and in doing so, he's making powerful strides in the fight against hate in all of its forms.

 

00:03:12:17 - 00:03:20:05

Wilk Wilkinson

Get ready friends. This conversation is about darkness, redemption, and the urgent need for understanding

 

00:03:20:05 - 00:03:24:02

Wilk Wilkinson

in an increasingly divided world. Here we go.

 

00:03:24:02 - 00:03:27:22

Wilk Wilkinson

Jeff Schoep, man. How are you, brother? It's,

 

00:03:27:22 - 00:03:31:16

Wilk Wilkinson

It's good to see you. Welcome back to the Derate The Hate podcast.

 

00:03:31:18 - 00:03:34:19

Jeff Schoep

Hey, thanks for having me on again, Wilk, It's an honor.

 

00:03:34:20 - 00:03:36:15

Wilk Wilkinson

Yeah. It's always good to see you, my friend.

 

00:03:36:15 - 00:03:39:03

Wilk Wilkinson

We haven't done anything in a little while, and,

 

00:03:39:03 - 00:03:44:19

Wilk Wilkinson

And just so the listeners know, you've got a book that's coming out soon.

 

00:03:44:19 - 00:03:45:16

Wilk Wilkinson

I believe in,

 

00:03:45:16 - 00:03:53:15

Wilk Wilkinson

sometime in late June of this year. You'll have a, a new book coming out. And I wanted to bring you on to to highlight that book.

 

00:03:53:15 - 00:03:54:20

Wilk Wilkinson

it looks like an incredible,

 

00:03:54:20 - 00:03:57:12

Wilk Wilkinson

story, an account of of your life. From

 

00:03:57:12 - 00:03:59:05

Wilk Wilkinson

what I'm seeing. And,

 

00:03:59:05 - 00:04:00:09

Wilk Wilkinson

I just wanted to bring in,

 

00:04:00:09 - 00:04:03:10

Wilk Wilkinson

again here on the podcast to to,

 

00:04:03:10 - 00:04:06:07

Wilk Wilkinson

see what's been going on with you. Talk about the book.

 

00:04:06:09 - 00:04:11:02

Wilk Wilkinson

I know you've been doing an incredible amount of, traveling around, speaking,

 

00:04:11:02 - 00:04:13:09

Wilk Wilkinson

working with the Simon Wiesenthal Center.

 

00:04:13:09 - 00:04:14:17

Wilk Wilkinson

Things like that. So we'll,

 

00:04:14:17 - 00:04:16:13

Wilk Wilkinson

we'll get a handle on all that and,

 

00:04:16:13 - 00:04:20:02

Wilk Wilkinson

see what's going on. So thanks again, man. I appreciate you joining me today.

 

00:04:20:02 - 00:04:21:21

Jeff Schoep

So thank you.

 

00:04:21:23 - 00:04:24:19

Wilk Wilkinson

Yeah. So all right, so Jeff, the,

 

00:04:24:19 - 00:04:32:21

Wilk Wilkinson

the book, the the book that's coming out and, anybody who's been listening to the podcast for a while,

 

00:04:32:21 - 00:04:37:21

Wilk Wilkinson

knows you already. You've, you've, you've guest hosted an episode for me. You've been a guest on the,

 

00:04:37:21 - 00:04:41:04

Wilk Wilkinson

on the podcast here 3 or 4 times. And,

 

00:04:41:04 - 00:04:43:02

Wilk Wilkinson

we've we've done a number of things together.

 

00:04:43:02 - 00:04:43:20

Wilk Wilkinson

So,

 

00:04:43:20 - 00:04:45:08

Wilk Wilkinson

just quick backstory,

 

00:04:45:08 - 00:04:47:18

Wilk Wilkinson

Jeff Schoep, former

 

00:04:47:18 - 00:04:48:18

Wilk Wilkinson

radical,

 

00:04:48:18 - 00:04:51:17

Wilk Wilkinson

American neo-Nazi, somebody who has,

 

00:04:51:17 - 00:04:53:08

Wilk Wilkinson

basically worked,

 

00:04:53:08 - 00:05:00:16

Wilk Wilkinson

through a lot of those past indiscretions and now has become one of the, most sought after,

 

00:05:00:16 - 00:05:02:08

Wilk Wilkinson

deradicalization,

 

00:05:02:08 - 00:05:09:08

Wilk Wilkinson

experts in the nation. Right. And now you've got a book coming out about it called American Nazi From Hate to Humanity,

 

00:05:09:08 - 00:05:11:14

Wilk Wilkinson

which is a fantastic,

 

00:05:11:14 - 00:05:14:01

Wilk Wilkinson

way to put it. Hate to humanity. And,

 

00:05:14:01 - 00:05:19:04

Wilk Wilkinson

and, Jeff, let's start by well, let's start with the title.

 

00:05:19:04 - 00:05:26:17

Wilk Wilkinson

Let's, let's start with the title and how you came up with that title and what people are going to find in this book.

 

00:05:26:19 - 00:05:28:12

Jeff Schoep

So, thank you again. And,

 

00:05:28:12 - 00:05:36:21

Jeff Schoep

so the title American Nazi From Hate to Humanity, I felt like using the, the N-word in the title was, was,

 

00:05:36:21 - 00:05:37:12

Jeff Schoep

marketing,

 

00:05:37:12 - 00:05:39:04

Jeff Schoep

idea basically because,

 

00:05:39:04 - 00:05:48:12

Jeff Schoep

that's one of those things where if you're walking by and you see that on the bookshelf, you see that out there, or you're thumbing through stuff online, you got to stop and look because it's ugly.

 

00:05:48:18 - 00:05:50:10

Jeff Schoep

It's hateful, it's ugly.

 

00:05:50:10 - 00:05:52:16

Jeff Schoep

Everybody knows what Nazi is. So,

 

00:05:52:16 - 00:05:53:23

Jeff Schoep

you look at that and then you see,

 

00:05:53:23 - 00:06:04:01

Jeff Schoep

from hate to humanity with American Nazi, you know, this this is. I got to see what this is. I need to pick this up and take a look at it. And basically what it is, is a memoir.

 

00:06:04:01 - 00:06:06:17

Jeff Schoep

I go through starting at the beginning.

 

00:06:06:17 - 00:06:08:15

Jeff Schoep

Well, it starts with a flash forward,

 

00:06:08:15 - 00:06:14:01

Jeff Schoep

and which is a pretty violent chapter of, of an experience that, took place and,

 

00:06:14:01 - 00:06:15:09

Jeff Schoep

dealing with somebody that had,

 

00:06:15:09 - 00:06:17:08

Jeff Schoep

tried to set me up to get murdered and,

 

00:06:17:08 - 00:06:19:16

Jeff Schoep

so that's, that's how the book starts out, and it's,

 

00:06:19:16 - 00:06:21:11

Jeff Schoep

pretty violent. And,

 

00:06:21:11 - 00:06:23:02

Jeff Schoep

you know, we just dive right into it.

 

00:06:23:02 - 00:06:23:14

Jeff Schoep

And then

 

00:06:23:14 - 00:06:26:12

Jeff Schoep

after the flash forward, we go,

 

00:06:26:12 - 00:06:31:10

Jeff Schoep

into it starts at the beginning and goes through my childhood and then into,

 

00:06:31:10 - 00:06:33:10

Jeff Schoep

some of the things that took place,

 

00:06:33:10 - 00:06:37:19

Jeff Schoep

the rise into leading the National Socialist movement and,

 

00:06:37:19 - 00:06:40:22

Jeff Schoep

my life involved in that, in that world. So,

 

00:06:40:22 - 00:06:42:02

Jeff Schoep

it's pretty violent.

 

00:06:42:02 - 00:06:42:21

Jeff Schoep

It's a pretty violent,

 

00:06:42:21 - 00:06:44:05

Jeff Schoep

book. And,

 

00:06:44:05 - 00:06:44:21

Jeff Schoep

a lot of,

 

00:06:44:21 - 00:06:50:07

Jeff Schoep

a lot of emotion. It took a lot of time to write it. I put a lot of time,

 

00:06:50:07 - 00:06:57:22

Jeff Schoep

years it took to write it, because originally, when I got it done, it was like 800 pages or something. 6 or 8

 

00:06:57:22 - 00:07:03:13

Jeff Schoep

pages. It was a family long, and I started shopping it around to different,

 

00:07:03:13 - 00:07:04:15

Jeff Schoep

book agents and,

 

00:07:04:15 - 00:07:05:23

Jeff Schoep

literary agents and,

 

00:07:05:23 - 00:07:09:03

Jeff Schoep

they were all like, this is double the length it should be.

 

00:07:09:05 - 00:07:11:21

Jeff Schoep

So it took another year to, to kind of,

 

00:07:11:21 - 00:07:13:14

Jeff Schoep

decide which chapters,

 

00:07:13:14 - 00:07:25:01

Jeff Schoep

were not really necessary which, which could be shortened up and then got it down to size and then started shopping it around again. And at that point and I started getting offers like crazy,

 

00:07:25:01 - 00:07:27:08

Jeff Schoep

people were interested in the story and, and,

 

00:07:27:08 - 00:07:30:01

Jeff Schoep

I found a publisher rather quickly that,

 

00:07:30:01 - 00:07:32:21

Jeff Schoep

took on the they took on the book and,

 

00:07:32:21 - 00:07:34:14

Jeff Schoep

they said, this is such an important story.

 

00:07:34:14 - 00:07:44:23

Jeff Schoep

We've got to rush it out because typically it takes a couple of years. Once you you get a book deal and it takes at least a year, maybe two years sometimes before it comes out. And,

 

00:07:44:23 - 00:07:53:16

Jeff Schoep

I had secured the publisher in January of this year, and the book is coming out June 24th. So they put a rush on it and it is,

 

00:07:53:16 - 00:07:55:00

Jeff Schoep

it's coming out.

 

00:07:55:06 - 00:07:57:12

Jeff Schoep

So it's pretty exciting.

 

00:07:57:14 - 00:07:59:11

Wilk Wilkinson

Yeah. That's incredible man. And,

 

00:07:59:11 - 00:08:03:13

Wilk Wilkinson

yeah, I, I've got to agree with him. I mean, it it's an incredibly important story.

 

00:08:03:13 - 00:08:04:08

Wilk Wilkinson

You know, you and I have,

 

00:08:04:08 - 00:08:06:21

Wilk Wilkinson

had had so many conversations about,

 

00:08:06:21 - 00:08:09:15

Wilk Wilkinson

about your backstory and how,

 

00:08:09:15 - 00:08:14:06

Wilk Wilkinson

I guess the the fascination as a, as a young

 

00:08:14:06 - 00:08:18:05

Wilk Wilkinson

child and, and growing up, that fascination with the,

 

00:08:18:05 - 00:08:21:14

Wilk Wilkinson

the Nazis and the in the Third Reich and, and,

 

00:08:21:14 - 00:08:26:00

Wilk Wilkinson

and then just, just the, the ugliness that came along with it.

 

00:08:26:00 - 00:08:26:18

Wilk Wilkinson

But then,

 

00:08:26:18 - 00:08:35:05

Wilk Wilkinson

and then so, so remind me, Jeff, or remind me, remind the listeners. What? How old were you when,

 

00:08:35:05 - 00:08:42:07

Wilk Wilkinson

you first actually became affiliated with the National Socialist Movement? And then when,

 

00:08:42:07 - 00:08:47:16

Wilk Wilkinson

at what age did you actually take control as a leader of the,

 

00:08:47:16 - 00:08:49:11

Wilk Wilkinson

NSM?

 

00:08:49:13 - 00:08:54:23

Jeff Schoep

So, I mean, the fascination with Nazi ism started when I was in about fourth grade. My grandfather fought in the,

 

00:08:54:23 - 00:08:57:22

Jeff Schoep

Hitler's army during World War two. My great uncle Spot,

 

00:08:57:22 - 00:09:02:15

Jeff Schoep

my mother came over from Germany, and my grandparents did as well after the war. And,

 

00:09:02:15 - 00:09:10:09

Jeff Schoep

by the time I joined the movement at around 18 and within a couple of years, I was I was running the organization,

 

00:09:10:09 - 00:09:13:18

Jeff Schoep

by 20, 21, somewhere around that age.

 

00:09:13:18 - 00:09:14:14

Jeff Schoep

So,

 

00:09:14:14 - 00:09:18:01

Jeff Schoep

it was a rather quick rise up through the ranks and, and,

 

00:09:18:01 - 00:09:18:07

Jeff Schoep

so,

 

00:09:18:07 - 00:09:22:13

Jeff Schoep

detailing some of the things that took place during that time, everything from,

 

00:09:22:13 - 00:09:24:23

Jeff Schoep

law enforcement set ups and, and,

 

00:09:24:23 - 00:09:32:08

Jeff Schoep

infiltration to some of the internal violence in the group, some of the fighting in the streets with,

 

00:09:32:08 - 00:09:33:15

Jeff Schoep

antifa, and,

 

00:09:33:15 - 00:09:36:00

Jeff Schoep

things of that nature and, and it's really,

 

00:09:36:00 - 00:09:36:14

Jeff Schoep

I took,

 

00:09:36:14 - 00:09:41:00

Jeff Schoep

care to change names and everything like that, so nobody's being doxxed or anything.

 

00:09:41:00 - 00:09:53:00

Jeff Schoep

You know, there's a few public figures that are named in there, but, most the vast majority of the people, everything that that's named is I've changed names and things like that to protect people's privacy. So that was that was important to me,

 

00:09:53:00 - 00:09:59:21

Jeff Schoep

in, in telling the story. And it's not all just a retelling of old horrors and terrible things that happened.

 

00:10:00:02 - 00:10:02:05

Jeff Schoep

You know, there is a redemptive arc, as you know,

 

00:10:02:05 - 00:10:07:23

Jeff Schoep

I felt like that was really important to include, you know, not just tell how it was, but,

 

00:10:07:23 - 00:10:09:18

Jeff Schoep

how I got out and, and,

 

00:10:09:18 - 00:10:11:18

Jeff Schoep

and the change and, and heading towards,

 

00:10:11:18 - 00:10:14:22

Jeff Schoep

you know, the good work and things that I'm doing now as well.

 

00:10:15:00 - 00:10:18:09

Wilk Wilkinson

Yeah. No. And I think that's hugely important. I mean,

 

00:10:18:09 - 00:10:20:19

Wilk Wilkinson

I mean, obviously there,

 

00:10:20:19 - 00:10:35:05

Wilk Wilkinson

you know, this this would this would definitely not be complete without knowing about the, the catalysts or the, the you know, I know it wasn't just one, but the, you know, obviously the most influential catalyst,

 

00:10:35:05 - 00:10:36:19

Wilk Wilkinson

for your transformation,

 

00:10:36:19 - 00:10:40:20

Wilk Wilkinson

was your, your now relationship with Daryl Davis and how that got started.

 

00:10:40:20 - 00:10:41:20

Wilk Wilkinson

And, and,

 

00:10:41:20 - 00:10:48:09

Wilk Wilkinson

if anybody wants to relive that, that episode where I had Daryl and you on talking about the,

 

00:10:48:09 - 00:10:50:02

Wilk Wilkinson

the meeting at the diner for,

 

00:10:50:02 - 00:10:51:16

Wilk Wilkinson

accidental courtesy,

 

00:10:51:16 - 00:10:55:14

Wilk Wilkinson

a that's an incredible episode. They can step back and and the,

 

00:10:55:14 - 00:10:59:03

Wilk Wilkinson

the link to that episode will obviously be in the show notes for this,

 

00:10:59:03 - 00:11:00:18

Wilk Wilkinson

this episode, but, yeah, just

 

00:11:00:18 - 00:11:02:07

Wilk Wilkinson

an incredible tale.

 

00:11:02:09 - 00:11:07:04

Wilk Wilkinson

Heartfelt tale and and how to two unlikely people,

 

00:11:07:04 - 00:11:11:21

Wilk Wilkinson

became such close friends. And you guys are like brothers now and and,

 

00:11:11:21 - 00:11:16:17

Wilk Wilkinson

yeah. Yeah. Daryl is an incredible figure. Let's talk a little bit about,

 

00:11:16:17 - 00:11:24:15

Wilk Wilkinson

you know, you said you go into, in the book, Jeff, you go into to some of the,

 

00:11:24:15 - 00:11:28:01

Wilk Wilkinson

the uglier tales, the ugly side of,

 

00:11:28:01 - 00:11:31:05

Wilk Wilkinson

of that, that radical lifestyle and,

 

00:11:31:05 - 00:11:33:00

Wilk Wilkinson

some of the infighting.

 

00:11:33:02 - 00:11:43:09

Wilk Wilkinson

I know you and I have talked a lot about the, the paranoia that came along with, with being in the movement and, and how that worked.

 

00:11:43:09 - 00:11:50:19

Wilk Wilkinson

And then and then this culminated in, in people actually trying to to set you up to be murdered.

 

00:11:50:19 - 00:11:54:16

Wilk Wilkinson

Let's let's unpack a few of those things a little bit more because,

 

00:11:54:16 - 00:11:57:02

Wilk Wilkinson

I mean, I think that's, that's going to be,

 

00:11:57:02 - 00:12:04:19

Wilk Wilkinson

important for people to understand that, that this is not any kind of a, a glamorous lifestyle.

 

00:12:04:19 - 00:12:12:02

Wilk Wilkinson

There's not a lot of smiles and, and happy times. This is all just a whole bunch of ugly. So let's

 

00:12:12:02 - 00:12:13:04

Wilk Wilkinson

unpack a, a little bit of,

 

00:12:13:04 - 00:12:15:11

Wilk Wilkinson

of that for me. Would you say?

 

00:12:15:13 - 00:12:16:02

Jeff Schoep

Yeah.

 

00:12:16:02 - 00:12:21:20

Jeff Schoep

I'm trying to think of where to even begin because there's so much. And there was, there was so much that I didn't include as well. But,

 

00:12:21:20 - 00:12:24:15

Jeff Schoep

one thing, that one thing that really stands out was,

 

00:12:24:15 - 00:12:26:16

Jeff Schoep

one of the assassination attempts.

 

00:12:26:16 - 00:12:30:06

Jeff Schoep

I say one of them, there's there was several, but,

 

00:12:30:06 - 00:12:31:12

Jeff Schoep

one in particular,

 

00:12:31:12 - 00:12:34:02

Jeff Schoep

where I was struck in the back of the head with a tire iron.

 

00:12:34:02 - 00:12:37:22

Jeff Schoep

And I still have the scars today from that. And that happened back in the 90s. But,

 

00:12:37:22 - 00:12:41:20

Jeff Schoep

it was someone that had infiltrated the organization. And,

 

00:12:41:20 - 00:12:43:08

Jeff Schoep

and I do tell this, this,

 

00:12:43:08 - 00:12:46:00

Jeff Schoep

story in the book, so I won't give it all away, but,

 

00:12:46:00 - 00:12:46:23

Jeff Schoep

it was,

 

00:12:46:23 - 00:12:51:07

Jeff Schoep

you know, they had come in and pretended to be involved in an organization.

 

00:12:51:10 - 00:12:54:10

Jeff Schoep

The one one individual did, and the other individual was,

 

00:12:54:10 - 00:13:01:02

Jeff Schoep

a guest, you know, somebody that had he had brought along for us to go pass out literature that that evening in,

 

00:13:01:02 - 00:13:03:17

Jeff Schoep

Rochester, Minnesota, actually. And,

 

00:13:03:17 - 00:13:05:10

Jeff Schoep

we had went down there and,

 

00:13:05:10 - 00:13:06:12

Jeff Schoep

come back and,

 

00:13:06:12 - 00:13:15:09

Jeff Schoep

and the guy struck me in the back of the head as I was bending down into the trunk of a vehicle, struck me in the back of the head with one of those four prong tire iron.

 

00:13:15:12 - 00:13:16:00

Jeff Schoep

And,

 

00:13:16:00 - 00:13:19:11

Jeff Schoep

as he hit me, you know, it was anti-Nazi or,

 

00:13:19:11 - 00:13:25:17

Jeff Schoep

anti. It was, anti-racist action back then. It was before Antifa. But,

 

00:13:25:17 - 00:13:42:01

Jeff Schoep

struck me in the back of the head and said, we're here. We're here to kill you. And lucky for me, I didn't get knocked out. And I just remember everything, like Flash White, you know, like, I didn't even know what happened because I was bending down into the trunk to reach a box of merchandise that we had brought along.

 

00:13:42:03 - 00:13:54:10

Jeff Schoep

And as I bent down, that's when he hit me and said, you know, anti-Nazi. We're here to anti-Nazi League or Antifa, whatever. He said, we're here to kill you. And,

 

00:13:54:10 - 00:13:56:13

Jeff Schoep

the guy that was with me, my roommate,

 

00:13:56:13 - 00:14:03:15

Jeff Schoep

he blocked a second hit, which I didn't find that out until afterwards, but he had blocked the second hit of the guy would have hit me again.

 

00:14:03:15 - 00:14:05:19

Jeff Schoep

I would have been dead for sure.

 

00:14:05:19 - 00:14:07:03

Jeff Schoep

It split my head open.

 

00:14:07:03 - 00:14:21:14

Jeff Schoep

I remember stumbling backwards after getting hit and putting my hand to the back of my head, and it felt like a wet sponge, like pressing into a wet sponge because my whole scalp was hanging down the back of my head. It was.

 

00:14:21:14 - 00:14:26:22

Jeff Schoep

It's you hear about people being scalped back in the, you know, old West days.

 

00:14:27:00 - 00:14:35:10

Jeff Schoep

I actually know what that feels like because my head, my skin off the back of my head was all hanging down and it was still open to call. It was it was,

 

00:14:35:10 - 00:14:37:02

Jeff Schoep

brutal. And,

 

00:14:37:02 - 00:14:38:03

Jeff Schoep

so that that,

 

00:14:38:03 - 00:14:40:21

Jeff Schoep

experiences in there along with,

 

00:14:40:21 - 00:14:46:22

Jeff Schoep

a number of other another, other incidents that took place like that. But that's, that's just, that's just one.

 

00:14:46:22 - 00:14:59:20

Jeff Schoep

That's why I say I don't even know where to start, because there's so many things like that that took place. And as you said, very well, there's there's nothing glamorous about being involved in this and the fact that I'm still alive today. I consider a miracle.

 

00:14:59:20 - 00:15:09:15

Jeff Schoep

So if there's young people out there that are looking at these groups thinking they're cool or they should be involved in it, the fact that I'm here today, I feel like it's a miracle in and of itself because,

 

00:15:09:15 - 00:15:11:04

Jeff Schoep

most people don't make it that long.

 

00:15:11:04 - 00:15:11:16

Jeff Schoep

And,

 

00:15:11:16 - 00:15:15:14

Jeff Schoep

after 27 years and especially being in the position that I was,

 

00:15:15:14 - 00:15:23:09

Jeff Schoep

a lot of this stuff, I even in my talks, you know, that I do I haven't brought this stuff up because I was waiting for the book to come out and to share some of these,

 

00:15:23:09 - 00:15:25:09

Jeff Schoep

memories and things like that, that,

 

00:15:25:09 - 00:15:27:04

Jeff Schoep

that took place over the years.

 

00:15:27:06 - 00:15:28:06

Jeff Schoep

 

 

00:15:28:08 - 00:15:28:15

Wilk Wilkinson

Yeah., Yeah.

 

00:15:28:15 - 00:15:29:13

Wilk Wilkinson

it's.

 

00:15:29:15 - 00:15:30:08

Jeff Schoep

Just.

 

00:15:30:10 - 00:15:33:01

Wilk Wilkinson

When you when you live a life of hate,

 

00:15:33:01 - 00:15:36:03

Wilk Wilkinson

there. Well, there's nothing positive,

 

00:15:36:03 - 00:15:37:06

Wilk Wilkinson

that's, that's going to,

 

00:15:37:06 - 00:15:38:21

Wilk Wilkinson

come of that and,

 

00:15:38:21 - 00:15:41:15

Wilk Wilkinson

I see so many people today,

 

00:15:41:15 - 00:15:44:18

Wilk Wilkinson

that are just consumed by hate. Hate for

 

00:15:44:18 - 00:15:46:03

Wilk Wilkinson

people that they,

 

00:15:46:03 - 00:15:50:05

Wilk Wilkinson

Often people that they do not know, they don't know anything about.

 

00:15:50:05 - 00:15:54:04

Wilk Wilkinson

And, and I know our friend Daryl talks a lot about that. How ignorance,

 

00:15:54:04 - 00:16:03:00

Wilk Wilkinson

is, is one of the, the leading drivers of of fear. And and then that fear is what leads to the hate. You know, it's just that that that we don't know,

 

00:16:03:00 - 00:16:14:13

Wilk Wilkinson

is often a leading driver for that hate. So, so then, you know, as you were, as you were going through the several years, Jeff, of,

 

00:16:14:13 - 00:16:15:10

Wilk Wilkinson

leading this,

 

00:16:15:10 - 00:16:20:03

Wilk Wilkinson

you know, Nazi, American neo-Nazi organization.

 

00:16:20:05 - 00:16:24:00

Wilk Wilkinson

You know what? I guess what,

 

00:16:24:23 - 00:16:29:15

Wilk Wilkinson

kept you going in this? I mean, because,

 

00:16:29:15 - 00:16:31:19

Wilk Wilkinson

again, well, for me,

 

00:16:31:19 - 00:16:46:19

Wilk Wilkinson

I mean, the constant anger, the hate, the things like that, that stuff is exhausting. What was it the do you think that that drove you to keep going for so long in that organization?

 

00:16:46:21 - 00:16:47:23

Wilk Wilkinson

And then now

 

00:16:47:23 - 00:17:03:04

Wilk Wilkinson

being somebody who who is actively or one of the most active people working towards deradicalization, how do you use the,

 

00:17:03:04 - 00:17:10:19

Wilk Wilkinson

guess my question is, how do you use whatever that driving force was then

 

00:17:10:19 - 00:17:20:04

Wilk Wilkinson

as a tool to then do what you do now in the de-radicalization space? Does that make sense?

 

00:17:20:06 - 00:17:39:13

Jeff Schoep

Okay. So yeah, it's a basically it's a reverse osmosis process. So it's the same skill set that I used for the wrong things to bring people into that movement. I use now to help get people out. So it's like I was the venom, I was the poison. Now I'm the antidote.

 

00:17:39:13 - 00:17:43:07

Jeff Schoep

That's the way I see it. And it's just repurposing a mission, you know,

 

00:17:43:07 - 00:17:45:20

Jeff Schoep

how I stayed so long is,

 

00:17:45:20 - 00:17:49:06

Jeff Schoep

looking back, you know, I wish I wouldn't have.

 

00:17:49:06 - 00:18:10:16

Jeff Schoep

Obviously. You know, there's a lot of regret, guilt and shame, but what the driving force was is that I believed I was doing something honorable and noble, you know, and it was a having a purpose and that mission in life. So I came once I realized it was wrong, what I was doing and that it was, wasn't something that I should be a part over then anybody should be a part of.

 

00:18:10:16 - 00:18:13:11

Jeff Schoep

I felt like, you know, how can I fix this? And,

 

00:18:13:11 - 00:18:17:06

Jeff Schoep

you know, that led to the work that I'm, that I'm doing today. So,

 

00:18:17:06 - 00:18:21:02

Jeff Schoep

having that mission and purpose is just it's just been,

 

00:18:21:02 - 00:18:30:09

Jeff Schoep

reverse osmosis and now now doing good with that same skill set, because that's

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