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Dr. Michael Siegel has spent 15 years researching gun violence. But about five years ago, a visit to a local gun shop — and a conversation with its owner — cracked something open for him. He walked in expecting to understand assault weapon bans. He walked out questioning the assumptions he had built his career on.
What followed was a three-year project that brought together 23 gun owners and non-gun owners — hunters, attorneys, physicians, advocates, law enforcement, gun dealers — in a facilitated dialogue aimed at finding real, workable common ground on firearm policy. Facilitated by Essential Partners and grounded in mutual respect, the project produced something rare: a comprehensive, 67-page gun policy that both sides helped build and both sides signed off on.
Understanding precedes agreement. The panel didn't talk policy first — they talked about themselves. Who they were, why they cared, what they feared. That foundation made everything else possible.
Details matter more than positions. Dr. Siegel's research showed that on nearly every gun policy issue, support among gun owners shifts dramatically based on the specifics. The divide isn't as fixed as it looks.
Synergy beats compromise. The goal wasn't for each side to give something up. It was to find policies that serve both safety and rights — and they found them.
The policy is real and ready. The Bridging the Divide framework is written as actual legislation. It's available at bridgethedividenow.org and can be taken directly to state lawmakers.
Bridge the Divide on Firearms Policy - https://bridgethedividenow.org
👉🏻Policies and Proposals - https://bridgethedividenow.org/our-policies/
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[00:00:00:00] Wilk Wilkinson: An unlikely group walks into a gun range. Half a lifelong gun owners, the other half gun violence prevention researchers and advocates. By the end of the night, they're teaching and learning from each other. It's not just a weird punchline, although it is kind of weird. That's how it starts. My guest today spent 15 years studying gun violence. One day he walked into a gun shop, asked to see an assault weapon, and what he saw made him rethink everything. Not his values, his assumptions.
Welcome back, my friend, to the Derate the Hate podcast. I'm your host, Wilk Wilkinson, your blue collar sage calming outrage and helping to navigate a world divided by fog and those who would spread that fear, outrage and grievance. The Derate the Hate podcast is proudly produced in collaboration with Braver Angels, America's largest grassroots cross Partizan organization working toward civic renewal, this podcast amplifies the mission that we share to foster a more respectful and united America where civic friendship thrives even when we disagree. Each week, through the power of story, conversation, and connection with incredible guests, we work to build bridges instead of barriers, not to change minds on the issues, but to change how we see one another when we differ. Because friends, it really is about bettering the world one attitude at a time. We did not create the hate, but together we can Derate the hate. So be sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcast, share it with a friend and visit Braver Angels to learn how you can get involved in the movement to bridge the partizan divide. Friends, I am so incredibly grateful that you have joined me for another powerful Derate the hate episode. So let's get to it.
If you follow the gun debate in this country, you already know how it usually goes. Two sides. Two sets of talking points. Zero movement. My guest today decided there had to be a better way. Doctor Michael Siegel is a professor of public health and community medicine at Tufts University School of Medicine, and he has spent 15 years researching gun violence. About five years ago, something shifted for him, not his commitment to reducing gun deaths, but his understanding of what it actually takes to get there. He spent two years building relationships across the gun rights and gun violence prevention divide. Then he brought together 23 people gun owners, non gun owners, attorneys, law enforcement, hunters, physicians, advocates on both sides into a structured dialog facilitated by essential partners. The result is a 67 page bipartisan gun policy built on consensus, not compromise. It's called bridging the divide on firearm policy, and it's written as actual legislation ready for states to take and run with. If you've ever found yourself struggling on one side or the other of the Great Gun Divide, you surely don't want to miss this. Let's get into it with my friend Mike Siegel. Here we go. Dr. Michael Siegel, thank you for joining me on the Derate the Hate podcast, man. It is it is great to see you today.
[00:04:00:15] Michael Siegel: It's great to be here. Thanks for having me.
[00:04:03:18] Wilk Wilkinson: Absolutely. we were introduced by our friend Patricia Jewett. Works. Works at the University of Minnesota here. Her and I have had a number of conversations Whether it be gun violence or other societal issues. And and she just a great friend, somebody I really, really respect a lot. And she said that she said that you're somebody that I should talk to because of this program that you have called Bridging the Divide on Firearm Policy. And I wanted to have you here on the Direct to Hate podcast to talk about this because, you know, you know, whether it be gun. Well, my friend and another friend of ours, another common friend of ours has has referred to it as gun violence prevention And so we got gun violence prevention on one side. We got gun rights advocates on the other side. And and there's a divide there that needs to be bridged. And you guys are bridging it. So so let's let's get into that. So Mike. How did you decide that this was going to be an issue that you wanted to tackle.
[00:05:10:03] Michael Siegel: So I think the thing that that really got me interested in using this approach is just the fact that there is such a stalemate out there in terms of, you know, there's such extreme polarization, there's polarization in this country right now and pretty much everything. But gun violence is certainly an area where where there has been polarization. And as you said, you know, there's two sides of gun violence prevention side and the gun rights side. And, you know, we haven't really been able to get to get much done in most, most of the states. When you interview gun owners, you find that they actually support many of the same policies that, you know, the GVP folks support. And so it always, you know, as wondered, why is it that when you, you know, there's this perceived intractable divide, but when you actually get to talking about policy, the differences are much smaller than they might seem. And that's what led me to start really studying gun culture and to really start talking to gun owners and to really learn about what are their how how are they coming at this, you know, what is it that that drives them away from conversations or what is it? They don't like about what GV folks are doing. And it was really fascinating what I found out. But the, you know, to kind of summarize it, the main thing that I found was that you can get anywhere from about 20% to 80% support among gun owners from on almost any policy, depending on what the specific details are in that policy. And that's something that I never realized. You know, I thought, you know, gun owners either support or don't support background checks, either support or don't support red flag laws. And it's just not the case. What I found in my research is that it's really the details of the policy that they're concerned about. So, you know, if you have a background check proposal where you're creating a gun registry, that's a no. If you have a background check proposal where, you know, it's it's like an automated approval system, that's a different story. And it was like that with all the issues.
[00:07:25:03] Wilk Wilkinson: So yeah.
[00:07:26:20] Michael Siegel: I decided that let's try to actually bring the groups together and let's see if we can really hash out the details of a policy that both sides can be, you know, can can be okay with. And that's what the that was really the formation of the bridging divide project.
[00:07:45:03] Wilk Wilkinson: Yeah. We'll break that down a little bit and get into, you know, a few of these things in a bit more depth. But, but you say, Mike, that you've been you say you've been studying this stuff for about 15 years Was there a particular event back in the day that that really sparked your interest or got you, you know, got you started on this path? Because I know for a lot of people, people who who take a strong interest in, whether it be the, you know, gun rights advocacy side or the gun violence prevention side, there's usually some kind of Genesis style moment in that journey for them. And, I know a lot of people that I've, I've spoken with over the years have that's that's certainly been the case. And then just having the conversations that I've had with with our friend Marc Beckwith about that and his, his work. it's called Bishop's gun against gun violence. But but yeah, I mean, him sharing some of the stories that he has shared and, and things like that. So was there a Genesis moment for you 15 years ago that that kind of got this started for you, Mike.
[00:09:03:22] Michael Siegel: So there was a there was there was a Genesis event that happened that that got me going down this path I had. And it was about five years ago. I had already done research in the field for about ten years. Most of the research I had done was on the effect of different state firearm laws and the the kind of epiphany experience that I had that really changed my perceptions was I went to a gun shop for the very first time. I just unannounced and with no, you know, just walked. We have a gun shop in my town within walking distance. I just literally walked in and I just went up and and I asked the owner, you know, can we just talk? I mean, I was very honest. I said, look, I'm a, you know, essentially a gun violence prevention researcher. And I was, you know, put everything right on the line and said, yeah, I just want to I'm here because I just want to learn. And so one of the things he was, you know, soon as I said that he was so very happy to spend time talking with me about about everything and just, you know, very generous with his time. And he spent we ended up talking for about an hour and he showed me all kinds of things. But the thing that had the greatest impact was I said, I'm just curious. I want to see an assault weapon, and I want to see what, you know, what an assault weapons looks like and what not an assault weapon looks like.
[00:10:25:08] Wilk Wilkinson: Okay.
[00:10:26:08] Michael Siegel: Because, you know, I heard a lot about assault weapon bands and, you know.
[00:10:30:06] Wilk Wilkinson: Sure. Yeah. No, it's definitely a question that that many want answered. And there's in many ways, different ways to answer it and sometimes no ways to answer it. But yeah, go ahead I want to hear this story.
[00:10:44:14] Michael Siegel: Yeah. So he so he took a gun off the shelf and he brought it over and he said, okay, this is an assault weapon. I can't sell this in Massachusetts as it is. And I, you know, took a look at it and. Said, okay, can I see something that's not an assault weapon? He said, yeah, sure. Hold on. Give me one second. He went into he goes into the back room and I don't know what he's doing. He comes back, he's got the same gun and he puts it down on the table and he says, okay, this is not an assault weapon. And I said, it's the exact same gun. I said, you how can that possibly be? So it turns out he had put a screw. It had a folding originally, it had a folding stock, and he had basically just driven a screw through it so that it couldn't it was no longer folding. It was it was a fixed stock. And so because of that single feature, it became an assault weapon. And this was an epiphany to me because that made no sense to me. Like, how could we be banning? Why would we ban the first gun that he brought out but is perfectly okay to have the same gun? It just happened to have a screw in a certain place that made no sense to me. And so that's when I started kind of not second guessing, but rethinking, rethinking a lot of what the, you know, the, the dogma that I had heard in the gun violence prevention space and started looking a little bit more critically at the policies. And also that was where I realized that I really need to talk to gun owners and just educate myself, because unless I really understand about gun culture and about guns, you know, it's it's I'm not going to be able to develop sensible policies that are that are actually going to make a difference. And so that was the beginning of my journey into gun culture and into the realization that unless gun owners are at the table, we can't come up with the most effective policies because we don't understand how, you know, I didn't know what a form 4473 was. I didn't know what the you know, what the questions that that were asked are.
[00:12:57:23] Speaker 3: Sure, sure.
[00:12:59:12] Wilk Wilkinson: Yeah. No. And this this goes to something that's well, it goes to a few things that are so hugely important, Mike. And whether it be this divide between, you know, gun violence prevention activists and, and gun rights activists or any other real divide, it's it's the idea that without a true understanding of who the other side is and why they why they feel the way they do, not just what they feel, but why they feel the way they do. In this case, it's like truly understanding, you know, what it is that. Well, in this case, what it is in that particular state. What's the definition of of an assault weapon, right? I mean, we've we've seen this argument time and time and time again and in different states and municipalities, they get defined in other ways. Or, or you see somebody that is a gun violence prevention activist, they try to make an argument when they clearly don't understand gun culture or the mechanics of, of firearms or the real ins and outs and the workings of a particular firearm or, or why people like to have their firearm. I mean, this this goes to such a, a deeper spot in just the culture of divides themselves. But but obviously I want to talk more about your project and how this works. I mean, I've again, I've, I've debated, you know, gun violence prevention and gun rights with a number of people. And, and I've had people on this podcast like, like my, my friend Michael, who is, is a person that doing great work in terms of gun violence prevention. But he does it from a different way because him and his family are from the, you know, gun manufacturer industry and things like that. So, so this is this is fascinating because. Far too often and I think you'll agree with me here, far too often we see where people, either they they have no desire to even learn what's on the other side of the divide. They don't recognize the divide, or they try to approach the divide with no desire to bridge the divide. You guys are doing something completely different. So I want to get into that and get into that a little bit more detail. Mike. So, so talk about what was it I think you brought together. You brought together 23 folks from, from either, let's say. I mean, if this was a rigid divide, 23 people from in total from, from either. You know, from, from one side of the divide or the other. So talk to me about this, this crew, the different participants that you brought in and, and, and what they brought to the table.
[00:16:09:11] Michael Siegel: Yeah. So you know, we, we put we put together a panel of 23 people that, you know, essentially I had hand-selected. I didn't you know, it wasn't just cold calls. It was I spent two years actually researching the two, the two sides and getting to know, you know, the players and and talking to people and building relationships. And so based on those conversations, I was able to identify people on both sides who are leaders and well-respected in their communities, who shared my view that they that there is common ground and they wanted they were at least willing to explore it. They were willing to listen. That was the only real requirement is that you have to be willing to listen and not just talk. And they all agreed to that. So we had, you know, pretty diverse group. We had people from. So, for example, we had the executive vice president of the Second Amendment organization right next to the head of Global Action on Gun Violence, two people who have been working at opposite sides for a long time, who you wouldn't normally expect to see in the same room. We had people who are involved in hunting, recreational shooting. We had gun dealers, we had a federally licensed dealer, we had law enforcement, military, ex-military. We had some attorneys to give us a legal perspective, some physicians and researchers. And then we had leaders of a number of gun violence prevention organizations. So it was a really broad based group with representing a lot of different stakeholders in the gun, you know, gun space. And we got together for a series of, I think there were 12 monthly virtual dialogs. These were facilitated by a group called Essential Partners, which is based in Cambridge, Massachusetts. And they. This is basically what they do. They they professionally facilitate and mediate dialogs on controversial issues. Okay. So that was really a key that, you know, is a key ingredient to this was was to have that professional facilitation. And we also got together twice for in-person weekend long in-person gatherings. We had one in Denver last June. We had one in Portland, Maine in November. And basically what we did was we put together a really detailed, comprehensive set of policies that we believe are laser focused on what we need to do to save the maximum number of lives without violating people's constitutional rights or due process rights, and without unnecessarily putting any, any burdens or red tape in front of gun owners who are legally acting legally and exercising their constitutional rights. And that was the balancing act that we that we tried to achieve.
[00:19:10:01] Wilk Wilkinson: Sure. So so let me just I want to highlight that for a second, because this is and this is where I think it's important to, well, when it comes to any one of these like real contentious divides. But I want to highlight the desired outcomes of what you were looking for, Mike. So so you're looking at ways to maximize the saving of lives with the least amount of burden on constitutional, constitutionally protected rights to to defend oneself. Am I getting that right? Did I break that down into its most simple form?
[00:19:54:08] Michael Siegel: Absolutely. That's exactly right, that we're trying to maximize one thing and minimize the other, simultaneously.
[00:20:01:13] Wilk Wilkinson: Maximize one and minimize the other. And and did you experience in this because because I do imagine because this does get pretty touchy for people. I've seen it personally. I've been in these conversations personally. Did you have a real problem or I don't know, I don't know if I want to use the word problem, but was was there at the onset in the initial in the initial phases of this, did you see where there were a lot of people that were really responsive to the methods, or were they talking past each other right away? Because when you get a bunch of people that are really passionate about these things on either side of the issue, you know it. I know you talked about, you know, the one precondition was you have to listen to the other side. Was there was there a tendency, did you see for people on the sides, on the on the opposing sides to kind of talk past each other or, or, you know, is that something you guys had to work through? If it was, how did you work through it?
[00:21:07:18] Michael Siegel: Yeah. So so we we largely avoided that. And I think the, the way that it was avoided was that the very first time we got together, we didn't talk about policy at all. In fact, we didn't talk about guns at all. We talked about ourselves. We just started by just getting to meet each other, getting to know each other. What are what do we do? What do we care about? You know, if somebody had sat in on that meeting, you wouldn't know who the gun owners were and who the, the, you know, non gun owners were who was just talking about ourselves. So we just developed those relationships first. And then the second time we got together, we still didn't talk about policy, but we did talk about guns. And specifically we had each we went around and each person talked about their involvement in this issue, how they came to be involved in this issue, whichever side they were on. And also they talked about what are their concerns, you know, what brought them to the table? Why are they here? What are they hoping to get out of it, and what are their primary concerns? What are they trying to avoid? And so we kind of got that right out right at the beginning and were able to kind of figure out what the what the areas are that people were concerned about so that we could avoid those. And I think because we had spent, you know, two full sessions as four hours just getting to know each other, getting to know how we got into this field, this space and what our concerns were and the reasons why. As you mentioned before, we did have people start to talk about their positions on gun policies. But the main thing we wanted to know is why it wasn't just, you know, yeah, I'm for this. I'm against this. It was why what are the reasons behind it? And that was, I think, the key to to really being able to move forward and avoid, you know, people talking past each other because we all agreed on what our purpose was right from the start.
[00:23:05:05] Wilk Wilkinson: That's fantastic. That is fantastic. Yeah. That's one of the important things when, when when we, you know, it's just one of the greatest, greatest keys in these bridging models is to, you know, right away, just spend a little time getting to know the person, getting to see the person for the person, not not their position on the particular thing. You know, so much of the work that I've done over the years now, Mike, has really been it's as much about getting to know the human being on the other side of the table as it is, getting to the crux of the issue, I guess, is really getting to know the person as a person, because when we start to see them as another human being and not just see them for the positions that they hold, it really changed the dynamic of the conversation.
[00:24:00:22] Michael Siegel: That was absolutely the case, and I think that was one of the one of the major keys to the success of the, of the project. And just to give you can there was another aspect to that. In addition, it wasn't just getting to know each other as a person that was huge, but it was also developing a level of respect for the other person. And so, for example, for the for the non gun owners, they had to develop a level of respect for gun owners and their decision to own a gun. I think that there's a many people involved in this space on the gun violence prevention site. Don't you know they don't understand why anyone would want a gun. And so they don't they don't they don't respect the decision that somebody makes. We had to get past that. And so just as an example, when we went to Denver for this weekend, the very first thing we did Friday night before we even talked about policy is we all went to a gun range together, the whole group.
[00:25:00:16] Speaker 3: And okay, okay.
[00:25:02:02] Michael Siegel: We had a range for that. That was something that I had, I had, you know, decided that's going to be on the agenda. That's going to be the first thing we do. So the no sooner did everyone arrive than we got in a bus and took everyone over to the gun range, and it was wonderful because the gun owners were basically they were all excited to share that experience, and they were really and the numbers were really happy to learn, and it was just an incredible sharing experience. We kind of paired up in one gun owner with a gun and they would explain, you know, first obviously talking about safety and then and then talking a little bit more about how to use the gun and all of that. And we got to try different guns and get, you know, somebody said, well, I want to try an AR 15. And, you know, so it was like you hear about these, these terms and all. And we got to learn. And so I think that the gun owners felt, you know, hey, this is they're really interested in what we're in our culture. And it's a level of respect that I don't think honors usually get from. Right. When they talk to folks, you know, on our side, so to speak.
[00:26:08:14] Wilk Wilkinson: Yeah. that's and that has been my experience to Mike is, having these conversations with people who just immediately and you hit it right on the head there when you say, you know, don't even respect somebody's decision to because they don't understand or don't even respect their position to own a, a firearm because they can't even comprehend themselves why somebody would, would want to. So to, to get to that point, I think is a is a big win anyway. And it does change the conversation. It changes the conversation in so many ways. Like I said, I've been able to have a number of conversations with our friend Mark Beckwith, both both publicly and privately about this, and he is definitely one who absolutely understands, you know, very deeply why why people, you know, want to own guns, feel they have a right to own firearms and things like that. And, and when, when a, when a gun owner and this is speaking from somebody who owns plenty of guns, when they start to feel. respected, seen, understood on that side of the conversation. And to your point, I mean when it's reciprocal to it changes the way that that conversation goes. People actually hear things rather than just just are focusing on their way, the way that they're going to respond, those kind of things. So. So then talk to me about talk to me about a few of the things I got, a couple of things that I want to get, get to in the, in the last, you know, a handful of minutes here in our conversation. But talk to me about a few of the things that maybe came as a surprise to people on either side of that divide. And then obviously, this is this is about I mean, we talked about the desired outcomes, but the desired outcome ultimately was to put together kind of a report or some kind of legislation that states can look to and kind of craft to be part of their, you know, whatever they're doing in their state. So talk to me. I really want to hear, like I said, a couple quick points on on just just things that were surprising to to either side in terms of the feedback that you received. But then talk to me about that end product. talk to me about that, that crafted piece of legislation that other states because we've we've got listeners in every state. So.
[00:28:43:11] Speaker 3: You.
[00:28:43:14] Wilk Wilkinson: Know, this might be something that that other states can can pick up on and take something away from.
[00:28:50:11] Michael Siegel: I think. So I think the biggest surprise for, for everyone on the panel was seeing the extent to which we could develop policies that would be effective, but at the same time providing wins for gun owners. So one of the things that I said from the beginning is I charge the panel and one of the charges was, you are to build in wins. For gun owners, this can't be a zero sum game. There needs to be something in here that gun owners can look at and say, you know, I, I like that I'm behind that. I like that idea. And so I think what was surprising to people at first, I think the, the GBP folks were afraid that I was saying, you know, okay, we have to make all these compromises. And, you know, we're not going to have effective legislation. The surprise was that at the end of the day, there are so many things in our laws that are just burdensome for gun owners or that violate gun rights that don't actually protect public safety. So what we found was that, surprisingly, when we had this laser focus on protecting public safety and saving lives, there was just a lot of extraneous stuff that we could leave out of our proposal. That or in fact, that we could change to actually increase gun rights. And, you know, I'll give you one. I'll give you two examples. One example is that the panel really was surprised to find out that if you are a violent, if you commit a violent misdemeanor, you know, it's perfectly okay for you to have a gun. But if you commit a nonviolent felony, you know, if you cheat on your taxes a little bit, your Second Amendment right is taken away permanently. Yeah, that that didn't make sense to people. They didn't understand that.
[00:30:35:07] Speaker 3: So it doesn't make sense.
[00:30:36:16] Michael Siegel: Right. It makes no sense. And so I think when the when the people on the gun violence prevention side saw that, they realized, wow, you know, here's an opening, here's a way we can kind of make a trade, you know, let's make gun violence. Let's make misdemeanors, violent misdemeanors. Let's add them as a prohibited. But let's take away nonviolent offenses. And and there, there you have it. And that, that single, you know, trade if you want to call it protects public safety because we're not losing anything by, you know, giving guns back to people who are not violent. But we're gaining a lot by, you know, taking guns away from people who who have been convicted of actual violent crimes. And, you know, we're not losing anything there. A second thing, a second example is, you know, the and this is where, you know, learning about the form 44, 73 kind of came in, you know, question 41 see on that is basically saying if you if you use marijuana, you can't own a gun. And when the gun violence prevention folks found that out, very few of them even knew that. That was one of the questions that was at that makes no sense at all, since we know that, you know, millions of people, it's now it's now legalized in many states. Many people use it recreationally. And it's absurd, you know, and so we as a group decided that makes no sense. So we did not codify that at the state law. And in fact, we have a provision in our policy that says that if you're using a drug that is legal in your state, then you know you're not prohibited. So those are two examples, but there are many more on each of our policies where we basically found that, you know, there's a lot of burdens that can be removed not only without compromising public safety, but in some cases actually increasing public safety.
[00:32:30:11] Wilk Wilkinson: Yeah. I mean, and this is what I call synergistic solutions, right? Finding finding ways where, you know, compromising. And I go back to Stephen Covey's way of talking about compromise versus synergize. You know, compromise is, you know, each side giving something up. And and it often ends up in a lose lose situation. Way too often our legislation, Mike, ends up in these lose lose situation where both sides are giving up something and they come up with something that's that's certainly less than than what needs to happen. But when you can come up with something that's better than the sum of its parts, you know, you work together across, across the divide of some kind and come up with a solution of sorts that's better than the sum of its parts. I mean, that's a beautiful thing. So. So with that being said, talk to me real quickly. I know we're just to touch over our time, but talk to me quickly, Mike, about what this what this final report is, is it final and is it something that where can people find it and how can they maybe introduce it into or introduce it to different legislators in their their particular states or districts?
[00:33:48:00] Michael Siegel: Yeah. So so basically, yeah, we did this is we finalized the policy and we everybody signed off on it. We have consensus on all there's eight policies within the larger package and people can find it on the website, which is Bridge the Divide. Now just all one word bridge the divide now. So we have the policy there. We have kind of a short summary of each of the policies. We have a summary of kind of what are the what are the wins if you want to use that word for both sides. And so people can can go to that website and find, find it. The thing that we did, which I think is hopefully most most helpful, is that we actually crafted the specifics of the legislation so people can actually take that, you know, we wrote it as a bill, and so people can actually take that policy and use that as a basis to, to introduce legislation into states. But it's written in a way that, you know, it can be introduced. It's not there's not a lot of work that has to be done to turn this from just some ideas into an actual policy.
[00:34:55:01] Wilk Wilkinson: Very nice. And so just so everybody knows, then there on the on the website Bridge the Divide. Now there's things there that provide context on how you guys came up with this and, and everything else. So if they do bring it to one of their local lawmakers, it tells them how you guys came to to where you came to. And so it I mean, I know a lot of times just having dealt with lawmakers and, and talking with a lot of people who, who, who talk to and, and interact with lawmakers, you know, a lot of times lawmakers like to feel like they crafted the legislation, but in any sense, they definitely want to look at and see, you know, how was this? How was how was this report itself developed? So I'm assuming they can find that on bridge. Bridge the divide now.
[00:35:45:20] Michael Siegel: Yeah. So we have a report, very detailed report that summarizes, you know, the the philosophy of the project, the conceptual idea for it, who all the panelists were, the methodology, the process in addition to the policy itself. So it's it's all there in the report. And in addition, I think maybe most importantly, we are very upfront about our philosophy and our principles. So we we on the very first page, the web, the first in a home page, we put up our principles because we want people to know, here's what you know, here's what we stand for. Here's what we agreed to at the beginning, that we all, you know, can coalesce around. For example, you know, one of the things is respecting the right of gun owners to, to own guns. And, and so, so that's, you know, we put that up front. We that's important for people to know that, you know, we didn't just this wasn't a haphazard attempt to to throw together a legislation. This was we started with very solid principles that everyone agreed with. And based on those principles, this is what we came up with.
[00:36:47:01] Wilk Wilkinson: Good work man. Well, I appreciate it. And I yeah, I love the idea that you guys did this. I'm grateful to our friend Trish for bringing us together. doctor Michael Siegel, it's been a pleasure, my friend. And we'll we'll look forward to hearing more about it down the road.
[00:37:05:08] Michael Siegel: Well thanks so much. Thanks so much. It was great talking to you, and I really appreciate the opportunity to share this with your your audience. It's an exciting project. And yeah, just really appreciate the opportunity to share this.
[00:37:17:19] Wilk Wilkinson: Friends, I want to thank you so much for tuning in. And if there's anything in this episode that provided exceptional value to you, please make sure to hit that share button. If you haven't done so already, please be sure to subscribe to get the Derate The Hate podcast sent to your email inbox every week. We really are better together. So please take a moment to visit BraverAngels.org and consider joining the movement towards civic renewal and bridging our political divide. This is Wilk wrapping up for the week saying get out there. Be kind to one another. Be grateful for everything you've got. And remember, it's up to you to make every day the day that you want it to be. With that, my friend. I'm going to back on out of here and we will catch you next week. Take care.
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