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Restoring Our Belief in Each Other: A New Civic Path for Healing America – Episode 272 with Rich Harwood
In Episode 272 of Derate The Hate, Wilk welcomes back Rich Harwood, founder of The Harwood Institute, to discuss how civic engagement, shared aspirations, and community agency can overcome toxic division in America. Drawing on decades of experience revitalizing communities, Rich explains how we can reject the ugliness of politics and embrace the dignity of building together. This episode is a must-listen for anyone looking to restore connection, purpose, and hope in their community.
With over 35 years of experience working in the nation's most challenged communities, including his pivotal work in Newtown, CT, after the Sandy Hook tragedy, Rich shares how we can build a new path forward—one rooted in empathy, shared aspirations, and visible local action.
💬 “People aren’t broken. The system is. And we can choose to build something better—together.” – Rich Harwood
✅ People are tired of the politics of division
✅ The “Enough Time to Build” campaign aimed to bring diverse communities together
✅ Real change begins locally, not in Washington
✅ Dignity, empathy, and shared purpose can heal our divides
✅ A new civic path begins when we stop waiting for permission and start acting together
✅ Public innovation is within reach for those willing to engage
At a time when distrust and anger dominate headlines, this conversation offers a realistic, hopeful path forward—not based on utopian ideals, but grounded in practical community engagement. Whether you're a civic leader, a parent, or just someone tired of the status quo, this episode gives you tools and inspiration to take meaningful action.
Richard C. Harwood is the President and Founder of The Harwood Institute for Public Innovation. A leading voice in civic renewal, Rich has worked with major institutions, local governments, and crisis-hit communities to foster trust, leadership, and collaboration. His latest effort, The Campaign for the New Civic Path, aims to restore belief in one another and the nation through collective action.
📘 Author of:
The New Civic Path: Restoring Our Belief in One Another and Our Nation
🌐 www.theharwoodinstitute.org
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The world is a better place if we are better people. That begins with each of us as individuals. Be kind to one another. Be grateful for all you’ve got. Make every day the day that you want it to be!
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The Derate The Hate podcast is proudly produced in collaboration with Braver Angels — America’s largest grassroots, cross-partisan organization working toward civic renewal and bridging partisan divides. Learn more: BraverAngels.org
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*The views expressed by Wilk, his guest hosts &/or guests on the Derate The Hate podcast are their own and should not be attributed to any organization they may otherwise be affiliated with.
Transcripts are AI generated and may contain errors
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:49:09
Wilk Wilkinson
Welcome back, my friends, for the Derate the Hate podcast. I'm your host, Wilk Wilkinson, your blue collar sage calming outrage and helping to navigate a world divided by fog. And those who would spread that fear, outrage and grievance. The Derate the Hate podcast is proudly produced in collaboration with Braver Angels, America's largest grassroots cross partisan organization working towards civic renewal.
00:00:49:11 - 00:01:16:15
Wilk Wilkinson
This podcast amplifies the mission that we share to foster a more respectful and united America where civic friendship thrives even when we disagree. Each week, through the power of story, conversation, and connection with incredible guests, we work to build bridges instead of barriers, not to change minds on the issues, but to change how we see one another when we differ.
00:01:16:17 - 00:01:41:00
Wilk Wilkinson
Because friends, it really is about bettering the world one attitude at a time. We did not create the hate, but together we can Derate the hate. So be sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcast. Share it with a friend and visit BraverAngels.org to learn how you can get involved in the movement to bridge the partisan divide.
00:01:41:02 - 00:01:49:20
Wilk Wilkinson
Friends, I am so incredibly grateful that you have joined me for another powerful derate the Hate episode. So let's get to it.
00:01:49:20 - 00:02:24:08
Wilk Wilkinson
Friends. If you're feeling worn down by the noise, negativity and division in our politics, you're not alone. My guest this week is someone who's been on the frontlines of rebuilding trust and community in some of the most fractured corners of our country. Rich Harwood is the president and founder of the Harwood Institute for Public Innovation, and for over 35 years, he's helped bring people together to tackle real problems, from small towns to major institutions.
00:02:24:10 - 00:02:57:14
Wilk Wilkinson
In this conversation, Rich and I dig into the campaign for what he calls a new civic path, a way forward that does not rely on politicians to fix what's broken, but empowers communities to rediscover belief, dignity and shared purpose. We talk about what it means to move from a mindset of division to one, of building together, and why empathy and human connection not bureaucracy, hold the key to lasting change.
00:02:57:16 - 00:03:10:08
Wilk Wilkinson
If you are hungry for hope, agency, and a sense of direction in this chaotic time, you're going to want to hear what Rich has to say. Let's get into it with my good friend, Rich Harwood. Here we go.
00:03:10:08 - 00:03:16:15
Wilk Wilkinson
Rich Harwood. So good to see you again, my friend. Thank you for coming back on the Derate the Hate podcast.
00:03:16:17 - 00:03:21:03
Rich Harwood
Hey, Wilk, it's great to be back. It's good to be with you. Thanks for the invite.
00:03:21:05 - 00:03:31:02
Wilk Wilkinson
Oh, man, I am grateful. And I'm just grateful to see you again. Rich. I've been following the work that you've been doing since. Since you're on the podcast last,
00:03:31:02 - 00:03:43:20
Wilk Wilkinson
Well, last year, I think. But, you know, I think episode it was episode 229. I think if I, if my, my a good number. Yeah. I think it's a good number, but,
00:03:43:20 - 00:03:46:02
Wilk Wilkinson
but but we were talking back
00:03:46:02 - 00:03:48:23
Wilk Wilkinson
back in early 2024
00:03:48:23 - 00:03:50:07
Wilk Wilkinson
about
00:03:50:07 - 00:03:51:22
Wilk Wilkinson
a campaign
00:03:51:22 - 00:03:56:20
Wilk Wilkinson
that you were going to be doing in conjunction with your work, obviously with the Harwood Institute,
00:03:56:20 - 00:04:04:22
Wilk Wilkinson
for for public innovation and then the the biggest topic was the contention,
00:04:04:22 - 00:04:05:08
Wilk Wilkinson
having
00:04:05:08 - 00:04:24:14
Wilk Wilkinson
to do with the presidential campaign and, and, and what that was all about. And then I see this, this well, where I want to start rich with this conversation is “Enough, Time to build”
00:04:24:14 - 00:04:39:21
Wilk Wilkinson
That is the campaign that you were doing in 2024. And I think that's a good place to start, because how that led into your book, The New Civic Path, is, is just it's what we need.
00:04:39:23 - 00:04:51:10
Wilk Wilkinson
It's, it's it's something that needs to be talked about. It need to be shouted from the rooftops. And so let's start there. The campaign enough time to build.
00:04:51:12 - 00:05:01:08
Rich Harwood
Yeah. You know. Well, because, you know, we we started that a year ago, more than a year ago now, it was all of 2024. I was on the road every week.
00:05:01:08 - 00:05:07:05
Rich Harwood
And we started, during the presidential knowing that it was a presidential year and everyone,
00:05:07:05 - 00:05:08:21
Rich Harwood
said to me, what, are you, nuts?
00:05:08:21 - 00:05:11:06
Rich Harwood
You're going to get overshadowed.
00:05:11:08 - 00:05:13:13
Rich Harwood
Everyone's going to be focused on politics.
00:05:13:13 - 00:05:42:23
Rich Harwood
It's not going to work. And I said, no, I'm not nuts. In fact, I believe now is exactly the time we need to do it. People are hungering for a different kind of message from a different kind of messenger. And so let's go. Let's do this. And the idea was that, you know, the name of the campaign enough time to build was that we knew that people were frustrated, they had had enough, but we knew also that they wanted a path forward.
00:05:43:05 - 00:06:07:05
Rich Harwood
And we at the time were thinking, we need to build together. We need to do things together. We need to create together as Americans. We need to come back together and build. And so we put those two ideas together and, you know, it's interesting, I think during the presidential race, we were the only national campaign to be invited to places as different and as diverse as, for instance,
00:06:07:05 - 00:06:12:09
Rich Harwood
I went to I was invited to go to Matt Gaetz's Congressional district in the panhandle of Florida.
00:06:12:09 - 00:06:31:16
Rich Harwood
I was invited to go to Lauren Boebert Congressional District in Colorado. I spoke in Jim Jordan's congressional district, the co-founder of the Freedom Caucus, all deeply red areas. And at the same time, I was invited to talk in Flint, Michigan, to go to Selma, Alabama. I went to purple areas like,
00:06:31:16 - 00:06:45:03
Rich Harwood
Fort Collins, Colorado, and Fresno, California, and the takeaway from this is, why was it that so many people were inviting us to come from such different political views?
00:06:45:05 - 00:06:56:23
Rich Harwood
Right. And, and I think the lesson is the takeaway for me was people are hungry for a different path forward. They were tired of the politics of division, the politics of acrimony.
00:06:56:23 - 00:06:58:14
Rich Harwood
And they wanted,
00:06:58:14 - 00:07:10:22
Rich Harwood
they were ready to be activated. But what I learned on this path was that they didn't know what to do and how to move forward, which ultimately led to this book, the new,
00:07:10:22 - 00:07:13:05
Rich Harwood
the new civic Path.
00:07:13:06 - 00:07:30:03
Rich Harwood
And so maybe I was nuts back in 2024, which just means I'm, like, probably ready to be committed or something. Now, this, I've gone back out on the campaign trail. I was, you know, with a new campaign called the campaign for a New Civic Path,
00:07:30:03 - 00:07:37:23
Rich Harwood
to articulate what this path looks like, how we as Americans can get on it, what I think it can produce for us.
00:07:38:01 - 00:07:42:07
Rich Harwood
And as we were talking right before we started this,
00:07:42:07 - 00:07:45:04
Rich Harwood
why it's so damn important right now,
00:07:45:04 - 00:07:48:19
Rich Harwood
to be talking about these things with each other.
00:07:49:00 - 00:07:50:05
Wilk Wilkinson
That's right.
00:07:50:07 - 00:07:52:03
Rich Harwood
In our country.
00:07:52:05 - 00:07:53:19
Wilk Wilkinson
Yeah. And the reason,
00:07:53:19 - 00:08:15:07
Wilk Wilkinson
Rich, that I wanted to start with the enough, you know, kind of build campaign and and how that led to the new Civic Path campaign. And it is because so many people today that I speak with that you speak with. We encounter them all the time in, in this, you know, depolarization work that we do.
00:08:15:09 - 00:08:40:23
Wilk Wilkinson
You know, people have called them the exhausted majority or the exhausted middle. And and our friend Manu Meel from, from Bridge USA calls it the hopeful majority in the middle. But all of us have this. One thing in common is politics as usual is tiresome. We've had enough. We we look at the ugliness,
00:08:40:23 - 00:09:02:13
Wilk Wilkinson
that we see from whether it be those in the media or those in politics or or just the outrage entrepreneurs that are constantly trying to capitalize in our social media landscape on the ugliness that they know they can drive through.
00:09:02:13 - 00:09:05:12
Wilk Wilkinson
Division. Yeah, people have had enough.
00:09:05:14 - 00:09:34:03
Rich Harwood
They have had enough. And what's interesting is if you think about the word ugliness, which I think is a great word to use to describe in part where we are, there is an ugliness. You know, I think we have at times misplaced our sense of decency and are replacing it with a sense of cruelty. At times we have lost a times the expression of empathy and compassion for one another.
00:09:34:04 - 00:09:45:12
Rich Harwood
We have lost at times the ability to see and hear one another and to uplift one another's dignity. You know, it's a God given right to have dignity. So it's something that's negotiated, right?
00:09:45:12 - 00:09:50:09
Rich Harwood
It's not like trust or respect. You. You were afforded dignity because you are here on earth.
00:09:50:10 - 00:09:50:18
Wilk Wilkinson
That is.
00:09:50:18 - 00:10:17:08
Rich Harwood
Right. Others. But here's the other thing that I think so important, which I, I know we share, is that juxtaposed to the word ugliness, as I've traveled across the country doing this work and now doing this, the second wave of this campaign is there's a beauty in America. Yes, there's a deep decency, a deep beauty, a deep sense of sometimes,
00:10:17:08 - 00:10:22:15
Rich Harwood
a deep sense of patriotism when it's not used to weaponize our political debates.
00:10:22:19 - 00:10:48:04
Rich Harwood
That's what used to call us forward to something deeper about our love for our nation, even if we think it's off track, or especially because we think it's off track. And in that patriotism, we're called to help us get on a better path. And you know Wilk, I I've just come off the road. I think I was on the road for 5 or 6 weeks straight when we launched this campaign from Northern California.
00:10:48:06 - 00:11:10:09
Rich Harwood
With their militia and great divisions to, DeSoto County, Florida, which is one of the poorest counties in Florida. To going across Connecticut from all the way east in New London to all the way west in Stamford. So a working class community to one of the most diverse upscale communities to North Carolina,
00:11:10:09 - 00:11:13:11
Rich Harwood
in a place that in the 80s was one of the top,
00:11:13:11 - 00:11:15:00
Rich Harwood
thriving communities,
00:11:15:00 - 00:11:18:20
Rich Harwood
in North Carolina is now at the bottom of every indicator.
00:11:18:22 - 00:11:54:17
Rich Harwood
But here's the deal. No matter where I went, no matter who I spoke with, no matter what the voting results told us about who people voted for in the last presidential election, I couldn't tell who was a Republican, a Democrat, not really. And what I could tell was that people are hungry for a new path forward, not a political path, not a Democratic or Republican path, not a liberal or conservative path, but an American path, an American path in American path.
00:11:54:17 - 00:11:55:13
Rich Harwood
And I've started to think
00:11:55:13 - 00:11:56:00
Rich Harwood
American
00:11:56:00 - 00:12:13:07
Rich Harwood
that I'm not quite ready to talk about this yet, but I've started to play with the idea that we need a new American agenda in our country that calls us forward, that brings out the best in us, and that says that we are a great country and a great country.
00:12:13:07 - 00:12:15:19
Rich Harwood
Steps forward and does the work that needs to do.
00:12:15:21 - 00:12:51:10
Wilk Wilkinson
Oh, that's absolutely right. That's absolutely right. And I before we before we transitioned into that and what that civic path is, I want to step back just a quick second to, to the concept of ugliness and and and it just it just kind of struck me. And it's something I want to get your thoughts on Rich because the, the ugliness that we do see from a lot of people, I don't think, or at least I don't want to think, that everybody that
00:12:51:10 - 00:13:03:07
Wilk Wilkinson
uses those ugly tactics, you know, those those outrage entrepreneur tactics, as I often call them, or or the fear, outrage and grievance model that I talk about.
00:13:03:09 - 00:13:27:20
Wilk Wilkinson
I don't want to believe that all of those people are bad people. I mean, in fact, I it's not that I don't want to think that they are. I don't think they are. I don't think they are bad people. But I want to get your opinion on something, because the idea of using that ugliness in their interactions. Do you think that people sometimes mistake their ability to be ugly because, I mean, they have that right.
00:13:28:01 - 00:13:51:00
Wilk Wilkinson
They have that ability to be ugly, especially in an anonymous way online. Sometimes. But they they mistake that for actually doing something. They want to do something. They feel like they're in a position that they lack control, but they think this is one thing that I can do and I am going to do it mistaking that for actually doing something that's going to produce a meaningful result.
00:13:51:00 - 00:13:52:23
Wilk Wilkinson
Do you think that that's a thing?
00:13:53:01 - 00:14:35:17
Rich Harwood
Yeah, I do, I think that I think that's really nicely said. I think that that we have become entangled. You know, you've talked about these outrage entrepreneurs in a sense, or I think you use a different phrase, but in a similar way. And first of all, I think we have to acknowledge that there are a whole lot of people making a whole lot of money in this country, intentionally manufacturing and stoking division to create fear in our society, to win votes, to win audiences on cable TV, to get us to get, engaged in social media and get wound up in algorithms that take us into rabbit holes.
00:14:35:19 - 00:14:57:02
Rich Harwood
I think we have to say as loudly and clearly as we can that that's happening. I think we need to ask the question, who the hell gave you the right to do that? You have a right to be heard. You do not have a right to dominate our public square and hold us hostage. So that's one part, the other part is in us becoming entangled in it.
00:14:57:05 - 00:15:04:23
Rich Harwood
We have surrendered to it. So unwittingly, unknowingly we have surrendered to it. To your point about,
00:15:04:23 - 00:15:25:21
Rich Harwood
thinking that ugliness is a substitute for action and when there is such fear, when we are being divided, so often when we feel as though we aren't seen and heard, that our dignity isn't upheld, when we believe that we have lost a sense of control and a sense of agency in our lives, then you end up in a fight or flight mode.
00:15:26:23 - 00:15:32:18
Rich Harwood
And I think that's what we're seeing. So I think people think that a form of action is to come out swinging.
00:15:34:13 - 00:15:46:12
Rich Harwood
And to engage sometimes in ugliness what one might think of as being ugly. And then I think there are even more people who have just thrown up their hands in frustration, disgust, despair.
00:15:46:13 - 00:15:47:11
Wilk Wilkinson
That's right.
00:15:47:12 - 00:16:05:18
Rich Harwood
And retreated. And I think the question for those of us doing this work and for all Americans is what's an alternative path forward think a genuine sense of possibility and an authentic sense of hope.
00:16:05:20 - 00:16:11:11
Wilk Wilkinson
Yeah. No, it's and beautifully said. It you know, I love the way you talk about,
00:16:11:11 - 00:16:13:07
Wilk Wilkinson
or that phrase, you know,
00:16:13:07 - 00:16:20:22
Wilk Wilkinson
kind of summing up what I was talking about is mistaking ugliness for action, right? And then we talk about,
00:16:20:22 - 00:16:24:19
Wilk Wilkinson
you said that you said a word there that stood out to me. Agency. Right?
00:16:24:21 - 00:17:01:12
Wilk Wilkinson
People feel like they've lost their sense of agency in their ability to actually get anything done. And that's why I love what you're doing here. Rich with the new civic path. And it strikes it strikes a big chord for me because as you know, something that I talk about quite often is the concept of subsidiarity. And when I look at your new civic path and you're talking to people within these communities about real things that they can do in their community to produce tangible, meaningful results for their community.
00:17:01:14 - 00:17:32:19
Wilk Wilkinson
Talking about things that are real and and things that are affecting them, and the conversations that they are having at their kitchen tables that affect them and their children and their relatives and the people within their communities. This is something that most politicians, in my experience, lose sight of because they're playing around in Washington, DC or whatever. Instead of actually focusing on the people and the issues that they're talking about and dealing with at their kitchen table.
00:17:32:21 - 00:17:58:16
Rich Harwood
Yeah. You know, two quick thoughts. One is, you know, you have to wonder when the and this is on both sides of the aisle right now. But it happens that the Democrats just took a shellacking. So you have to wonder you know out of that they said well we need to do all these postmortems. We need to go out and commission tens of millions of dollars of focus groups to find out, like, how do young white men talk or how to folks in the Midwest,
00:17:58:16 - 00:17:59:16
Rich Harwood
talk about things.
00:17:59:16 - 00:18:21:08
Rich Harwood
And I'm thinking to myself, My God, if you actually were connected, like, genuinely like as a human being, connected to people and their lives, if you spent the time to actually, as you said a number of times, not to listen to people and to engage with people and to work with people.
00:18:22:15 - 00:18:33:04
Rich Harwood
If you actually believe, I mean, to me, part of the reason why I talk so much about dignity is because it's a reminder that and it's actually a
00:18:33:04 - 00:18:57:01
Rich Harwood
a requirement that every value holds, every life holds value every yeah, every life holds value. And we have to honor those lives which means that even if you disagree with someone, even if they're different from you, even if they live in a different part of the state than you do, even if they're from a different economic station, that we owe it to each other as human beings to engage with one another.
00:18:57:03 - 00:19:26:01
Rich Harwood
So why do folks need to go commission all these focus groups? The formula is complicated. If it's not that complicated, I just can't figure it out. So give me the $38 million. So, yeah. So I I'm just flabbergasted by that. And I shake my head and honestly, it motivates me even more. Like, I feel as you know, I feel really compelled to do this campaign.
00:19:26:01 - 00:19:54:16
Rich Harwood
There's something calling me. There's something tugging at me. There's something propelling me forward to do this. And. And when I hear this stuff about these focus groups and I see this industry manufacturing and stoking division, when I see people substituting ugliness for real action, when I see people experiencing a lost sense of hope more than anything. Yes, more than anything.
00:19:54:16 - 00:19:56:00
Wilk Wilkinson
It's heartbreaking.
00:19:56:02 - 00:19:58:22
Rich Harwood
Then and we've got to step forward.
00:19:58:22 - 00:20:00:02
Rich Harwood
Got to get going here.
00:20:00:04 - 00:20:24:03
Wilk Wilkinson
And and God bless you for doing it rich. Because there are not enough of us doing it right. It's you know obviously the work that I do is primarily with the organization Braver Angels. But I also, you know, sit on the board of advisors for another incredible organization called the Pro Human Foundation. And a lot of these things are centered around the idea that people do not feel heard.
00:20:24:05 - 00:20:36:16
Wilk Wilkinson
Right? I mean, the the we, the people project, which is one of the early things that I got involved in, and the Braver Angels organization, you know, one of our main themes there is speaking with, you know,
00:20:36:16 - 00:20:44:20
Wilk Wilkinson
giving people time at the podium who are often spoken of but seldom spoken with. One of the things that I've seen you talk about, Rich,
00:20:44:20 - 00:20:46:12
Wilk Wilkinson
a number of times was,
00:20:46:12 - 00:20:58:07
Wilk Wilkinson
was the idea that and I think it came from a, I don't know if I think you heard it at a church or saw it on a church billboard or or something, but but the healing began is when somebody feels heard.
00:20:58:09 - 00:21:26:07
Wilk Wilkinson
These things are not again, it's not complicated. It's not a complicated equation. But the fact is, is a focus group is not needed. Listening to people is what is needed. The healing begins when people feel heard. If people do not feel heard, their ears slam shut and they're not getting your message. We cannot do anything if we are not listening to each other and working with each other.
00:21:26:10 - 00:21:41:08
Wilk Wilkinson
It's not a matter of trying to change people's minds, but it trying to open people's minds and then we can actually get things done. People get stuck in their own certainty and they want to preach to people instead of speaking with people.
00:21:41:10 - 00:22:02:13
Rich Harwood
And I think this goes back to the the point you made before. And then I sort of went up on this tangent about focus groups. But the you're, you're, you're you're raising the question of agency and goes directly to how do we get stuff done. And I think one of the challenges in our society today is that people do feel like they've lost control.
00:22:02:14 - 00:22:30:12
Rich Harwood
They do not feel they have a sense of individual or shared and collective agency. And one of the reasons why I think this new civic path is so important is because it's not about let's create more activity. It's not about let's create another organization. It's not about let's get more funding. It's actually about addressing something very human, which is that in order for we need to restore a sense of belief.
00:22:30:12 - 00:22:51:14
Rich Harwood
I think we face a crisis of belief in the country and to to restore a sense of belief in ourselves. And we know that we can actually get things done. I think we have to turn outward toward one another. I think we actually have to focus on what we can agree on so we can get moving together. We make sure we have differences, but how about if we focus on what we can agree on a bit, right.
00:22:51:17 - 00:23:11:13
Rich Harwood
And then I think we actually have to build together because as you know, when you build together, you all of a sudden discovered that you have innate capabilities that you might have forgotten or that someone denigrated or someone told you not to care about you, all of a sudden discover that other people have innate capabilities that we all can contribute.
00:23:11:15 - 00:23:37:03
Rich Harwood
You discover that we actually do have agency. We can produce things. We can be creators. We can be generators. Right? This is part of the American tradition. I believe there's a lot of things that went wrong in our history, but let's not throw away the things that went right in the process. Right? And I think when we build together, we rediscover our shared humanity
00:23:37:03 - 00:23:40:04
Rich Harwood
that were part of something larger than just ourselves.
00:23:40:04 - 00:24:01:13
Rich Harwood
So to me, this new civic path is not about just creating more stuff. I think we have too much stuff in our case. It's about creating a sense of purpose, a sense of meaning, a sense that we can actually do things together. And it's in that actual process of doing and creating that we restore a sense of belief that we can actually come together and get things done.
00:24:01:14 - 00:24:06:12
Rich Harwood
That's I think that's so necessary today in this environment.
00:24:06:14 - 00:24:08:02
Wilk Wilkinson
I think you're absolutely right.
00:24:08:02 - 00:24:49:00
Wilk Wilkinson
I mean, the fact that that people have lost their their sense of belonging, their sense of belief, they, they, they've lost so many in so many ways. People have lost their capability to believe in almost anything. Yes. So so then they're just grabbing on to whatever they can grab on to. And it shouldn't come to anybody's surprise that that that leads to tribalism, that leads to tribalism, because people, as they lose their their sense of belonging, as they lose their sense of belief that they, they lose their, their, you know, we look at institutional trust in all institutions, whether it be,
00:24:49:00 - 00:24:51:11
Wilk Wilkinson
the school system or, you know, Congress,
00:24:51:11 - 00:24:51:23
Wilk Wilkinson
our
00:24:51:23 - 00:25:16:06
Wilk Wilkinson
government, a name, any government agency, public health, something I've done so much work with is public health. People have lost their ability to believe in these organizations. And when they lose their ability to believe in all of these things, they just start grasping at anything. And that anything that they're grasping on to sometimes, well, oftentimes leads into that ugly and toxic tribalism.
00:25:16:08 - 00:25:48:19
Rich Harwood
Absolutely. And, you know, our response to this right now, too often the common response is, well, we just need a better person to run for office. We just need to create a new political agenda. We just need to figure out how to talk to certain groups in our society so we can win their votes. I think we've got to take things out of a politicized frame and put them into a frame about what matters to us as human beings, as members of a community.
00:25:48:21 - 00:25:49:12
Wilk Wilkinson
That's right.
00:25:49:14 - 00:26:26:08
Rich Harwood
And in doing so, it unlocks the potential for us to come together and start to work together. I can't I know you know this, and I know many of your listeners know this, but it's worth repeating, which is in so many places where the Institute is working right now, which are heavily divided, deeply divided. When we are able, when the community is able, when folks are able to take things out of a political agenda and put them in an agenda of what matters to them in their lives and for their community, no one cares what party you belong to know.
00:26:26:10 - 00:26:43:06
Rich Harwood
No one cares if you're liberal or conservative. No one cares about these things that we think we care about, and then we can actually get stuff done. So I think part of this is we've got to make the commitment to shift the frame that we're operating in. That's right.
00:26:43:06 - 00:26:47:04
Rich Harwood
And unleash our God given potential to do this work together.
00:26:47:06 - 00:26:58:08
Wilk Wilkinson
Right. Right. Well, you know, you talked about the concept of pro humanity. You know, pro humanity stands for our common humanity. And and when you're going into these communities
00:26:58:08 - 00:27:15:05
Wilk Wilkinson
rich and and this is what I think people lose sight of is is the answer is not in. Yeah. The answer is not in Washington. Right. It's you know, I, I've, I've said something and actually this is something I got from
00:27:15:05 - 00:27:23:08
Wilk Wilkinson
I think JD Vance is or I loosely translated from JD Vance, his book Hillbilly Elegy is the idea that,
00:27:23:08 - 00:27:30:15
Wilk Wilkinson
if you believe the government is either the cause of or the answer to all of your problems, especially the federal government,
00:27:30:15 - 00:27:42:08
Wilk Wilkinson
you need a paradigm shift because it's really not there. It's it's within our each of our capacity, the agency of each of us as an individual to start looking at
00:27:42:08 - 00:28:07:00
Wilk Wilkinson
what it means to be an individual. What individual responsibility and accountability means. And again, like to your point is, when we get together groups of people that can stand together in a community and realize that they are part of something bigger than just themselves, and get beyond the politics of the issue and discuss the issues that are meaningful in that community.
00:28:07:02 - 00:28:16:15
Wilk Wilkinson
They can get real things done. So in your new civic path or in the book the the new Civic Path, the new Civic Path campaign,
00:28:16:15 - 00:28:27:16
Wilk Wilkinson
Rich, talk about some of those tangible things that people can do within their community to start working together to create real results.
00:28:27:18 - 00:28:44:12
Rich Harwood
Well, look, I think, I mean, I can give you examples of the results people created, but I think what people really want to know is, how can I do this right? And so, one is I think, I mean, there are a number of things I'll just right down to for right now.
00:28:44:12 - 00:28:52:08
Rich Harwood
I think first and foremost, we have we as individuals have a choice to make.
00:28:52:10 - 00:28:56:00
Rich Harwood
Really fundamental basic choice. And it's,
00:28:56:00 - 00:29:07:04
Rich Harwood
not something you can download from the internet. It's not something you can simply reading a book to. I've written lots of books about this stuff and I hope people buy my books. But honestly you don't need to buy one of my books to do this.
00:29:07:04 - 00:29:09:06
Rich Harwood
Or go to one of our trainings.
00:29:09:08 - 00:29:40:13
Rich Harwood
Really just need to sit with yourself for a moment and say, what's my orientation? I think our orientation is that we need to turn outward towards one another. We need to have people and communities always in our line of sight. And that sounds easy, except so much of us have been conditioned to be inward looking, to worry about ourselves, to worry about our metrics, to worry about if you're running an organization, fundraising to worry about our next strategic plan.
00:29:40:15 - 00:29:59:15
Rich Harwood
We believe that we can't talk to other people because we might say the wrong thing. We're afraid of one another. All these things force us to turn inward. Prompt us to turn inward. So I think we need a different mindset, a different orientation. We need to turn outward. So that's number one. Two. I think we need to focus on our shared aspirations.
00:29:59:16 - 00:30:06:04
Rich Harwood
We have become really practiced and quite good at talking about what we're against.
00:30:06:04 - 00:30:27:10
Rich Harwood
But one of the things that I find in engaging with the beauty of America is that we really want to know what we're for, and I think we can determine what we are for when we focus not on problems, not on utopian vision set beyond no relationship to our reality, but on our shared aspirations that come from our gut.
00:30:27:12 - 00:30:44:09
Rich Harwood
And when we express I'm just anyone listening, try this after this program, after you listen, ask someone about their aspirations for their lives and their community and they'll tell you something that is actionable, doable and achievable. Do it with other people. And all of a sudden you realize that while we don't agree on everything, we can agree on some things.
00:30:44:11 - 00:31:04:20
Rich Harwood
Do it with other people, and all of a sudden you realize that in a world that keeps telling us we're so different from one another, we do share some things in common. That's right. Do it with other people. And you realize that actually we are you are creating community through the very process of focusing on shared aspirations, because we hold them in common and we can only act on them together.
00:31:04:22 - 00:31:14:19
Rich Harwood
So that's number two. Three. We got to build, build, build, build. We're not going to make it through this juncture in history by simply talking to each other.
00:31:14:21 - 00:31:16:17
Wilk Wilkinson
That's right. That's right.
00:31:16:18 - 00:31:46:10
Rich Harwood
We've got to create belief. Belief comes from seeing things happen by having a sense of possibility and hope in this world that we live in. And so we have to produce things which create proof, which we can then use to send signals to people that it's okay to come out. There's something productive happening. We can all be producers together, and we can restore or reclaim or rediscover our sense of individual and shared agency and get on a different path.
00:31:46:11 - 00:32:15:01
Rich Harwood
Lastly, we need to think less about fixing problems and fixing people, and more about creating a new trajectory of hope. No one believes we're going to solve education problems tomorrow. No one believes we're going to deal with safety issues immediately. No one believes we're going to deal with meth and fentanyl and opioid addiction in our communities that have ravaged our communities, right.
00:32:15:03 - 00:32:47:15
Rich Harwood
What people want to know is, are we actually getting serious? Are we telling the truth about what we really face? And are we rolling up our sleeves? And are we putting ourselves on a better course that doesn't fizzle out in time, but grows with increasing momentum? Work that grows over time with increasing civic confidence, that grows over time by by enlisting more and more people because they believe something positive and productive can happen in our lives, in our communities and in the society.
00:32:47:17 - 00:33:10:14
Rich Harwood
So someone said, well, what can I do? I'd say, just start with these four points. Don't make it more. You mentioned this a number of times now. Don't make it more complicated. Don't you have to read any books? You don't have to do anything. You already know this stuff within you, right? You've been told you don't. And maybe you've been convinced that you don't.
00:33:10:16 - 00:33:12:02
Rich Harwood
But you do.
00:33:12:04 - 00:33:14:09
Wilk Wilkinson
Oh that's right. I mean, too many people are,
00:33:14:09 - 00:33:32:01
Wilk Wilkinson
too many people are out there convincing you and me and everybody else, or trying to anyway that they are going to be the savior. They are going to be the ones that are going to swoop in and solve your problems. A lot of those problems start here, and a lot of those problems will get fixed here with each one of us as an individual.
00:33:32:03 - 00:33:34:06
Wilk Wilkinson
You know, it's go ahead.
00:33:34:08 - 00:33:44:22
Rich Harwood
I just want to go back to a point you made before because you were talking about Washington can't fix a lot of things. And so let me just dispose of the Washington argument real quick, which is, yes, the federal government needs to act on certain things.
00:33:44:22 - 00:33:53:12
Rich Harwood
Okay. Period. Full stop. But here's the deal. The things that people are talking about and can use it really concern them are things like use.
00:33:53:14 - 00:34:19:18
Rich Harwood
There's things like education. They're things like wellness. They're things like belonging. They're things like senior care. All of those things require us in communities to act together, to create a stronger community for different folks in our community. That's part a part B is they're saying which you siloed, which you fractured. We don't have a sense of belonging. I don't feel seen and heard.
00:34:19:18 - 00:34:21:02
Rich Harwood
My dignity has been,
00:34:21:02 - 00:34:30:14
Rich Harwood
been isn't being upheld. These are all things I'd put in the category of civic culture. All of these things we need to create. Washington can't create this stuff. The
00:34:30:14 - 00:34:43:04
Rich Harwood
state capital can't create this. I don't care how many pieces of legislation you you pass. These are human dilemmas that require human action in our communities, where we can see and hear one another and get to work.
00:34:43:08 - 00:34:50:23
Rich Harwood
And then we can spread a different ethos, a different ethic, a different belief across the country.
00:34:51:01 - 00:35:03:19
Wilk Wilkinson
That is absolutely right. Human dilemmas that require human action, not government action, not some far away politician that's going to pretend to be your Superman human dilemmas that require human action. And another thing that you said right there,
00:35:03:19 - 00:35:11:03
Wilk Wilkinson
the belief comes from seeing things happen and that it these, these things,
00:35:11:03 - 00:35:15:22
Wilk Wilkinson
are, are so important. And this is the this is the path forward, rich.
00:35:15:22 - 00:35:30:21
Wilk Wilkinson
This is the the new civic path. It's not complicated. It is doable. We can do it together. We are better together. And the work that you're doing is incredible. Rich Harwood, our time today has has flown by again. And,
00:35:30:21 - 00:35:37:09
Wilk Wilkinson
I always love talking to you, man. This is, this the work that you're doing? The Harwood Institute.
00:35:37:11 - 00:35:43:05
Wilk Wilkinson
Institute for Public Innovation. Just a great organization. You're doing great work. And,
00:35:43:05 - 00:35:45:14
Wilk Wilkinson
and God bless you for it. Thank you so much, Rich.
00:35:45:16 - 00:35:46:07
Rich Harwood
God bless you.
00:35:46:07 - 00:35:50:20
Rich Harwood
Thanks for having me.
00:35:50:20 - 00:36:20:16
Wilk Wilkinson
Friends, I want to thank you so much for tuning in. And if there's anything in this episode that provided exceptional value to you, please make sure to hit that share button. If you haven't done so already, please be sure to subscribe to get the Derate The Hate podcast sent to your email inbox every week. We really are better together, so please take a moment to visit BraverAngels.org and consider joining the movement towards civic renewal and bridging our political divides.
00:36:20:18 - 00:36:44:00
Wilk Wilkinson
This is Wilk wrapping up for the week saying get out there. Be kind to one another. Be grateful for everything you've got. And remember it's up to you to make every day the day that you want it to be. With that, my friends, I'm going to back on out of here and we will catch you next week. Take care.
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