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Can community service heal what politics has broken?
“We don’t need to agree on everything—but we can show up together.” – Chip Webster
In this powerful conversation, Wilk sits down with Chip Webster, a seasoned business leader and founder of Unity in Service, to explore what it really takes to bring Americans back together. Beyond politics, beyond speeches—this episode is about action, humility, and human connection.
💡 Key Takeaways:
🤝 Service Over Speeches: How volunteering and shared projects build trust across political and cultural divides.
🇺🇸 A New Rite of Passage? Why national service for young adults could transform our civic culture.
🔄 Cancel Culture vs. Conversation: What happens when fear replaces dialogue—and how to reclaim honest discourse.
🧠 The Power of Microvalidations: Small, intentional affirmations that rebuild dignity and trust in everyday life.
🛠️ Fixing the Trust Deficit: How local engagement is the antidote to national distrust.
📚 About Chip Webster:
Chip has spent decades mentoring leaders, turning around companies, and now, working to turn around the civic health of our nation. As founder of Unity in Service and author of Unity in Service: A Pathway to Responsible Citizenship, he’s on a mission to build a more united, engaged America—one act of service at a time.
📖 Get the Book | 🌐 unityinservice.org | 🔗 Connect with Chip on LinkedIn
🗣️ Join the Movement
Tired of the outrage? Let’s build something better. Start small. Serve big.
💥𝙁𝙞𝙣𝙙 𝙤𝙪𝙩 𝙝𝙤𝙬 𝙖𝙩 𝘽𝙧𝙖𝙫𝙚𝙧𝘼𝙣𝙜𝙚𝙡𝙨.𝙤𝙧𝙜
🎧 Listen, share, and get involved at DerateTheHate.com
📢 Hashtags for Sharing:
#UnityInService #PoliticalPolarization #CommunityService #TrustInDemocracy #CitizenEngagement #NationalService #CancelCulture #Microvalidations #BridgeTheDivide
The world is a better place if we are better people. That begins with each of us as individuals. Be kind to one another. Be grateful for all you’ve got. Make every day the day that you want it to be!
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The Derate The Hate podcast is proudly produced in collaboration with Braver Angels — America’s largest grassroots, cross-partisan organization working toward civic renewal and bridging partisan divides. Learn more: BraverAngels.org
Welcome to the Derate The Hate Podcast!
*The views expressed by Wilk, his guest hosts &/or guests on the Derate The Hate podcast are their own and should not be attributed to any organization they may otherwise be affiliated with.
Transcript is AI generated and may contain errors
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:29:17
Chip Webster
We're in a situation. It doesn't take a lot of attention to figure out how divided we are and becoming more divided. And there are organizations that want us to be divided. And the only way we're going to fix this division is by working together. Taking moderate liberals, moderate conservatives, people who put country ahead of party, working together to break down the barriers, to get us focus back on the things we need to do for democracy to survive.
00:00:29:17 - 00:00:32:05
Chip Webster
we have to turn off the TV.
00:00:32:07 - 00:00:40:04
Chip Webster
Get off the couch. Walk outside and volunteer to do something to help somebody else.
00:00:40:04 - 00:00:48:20
Wilk Wilkinson
Friends. That was Chip Webster of Unity In Service. If you're not familiar, you want to be. Let's cue that intro.
00:00:48:20 - 00:01:38:05
Wilk Wilkinson
Welcome back, my friends, to the Derate the Hate podcast. I'm your host, Wilk Wilkinson, your blue collar sage calming outrage and helping to navigate a world divided by fog. And those who would spread that fear, outrage and grievance. The Derate the Hate podcast is proudly produced in collaboration with Braver Angels, America's largest grassroots cross partisan organization working towards civic renewal.
00:01:38:07 - 00:02:05:11
Wilk Wilkinson
This podcast amplifies the mission that we share to foster a more respectful and united America where civic friendship thrives even when we disagree. Each week, through the power of story, conversation, and connection with incredible guests, we work to build bridges instead of barriers, not to change minds on the issues, but to change how we see one another when we differ.
00:02:05:13 - 00:02:29:20
Wilk Wilkinson
Because friends, it really is about bettering the world one attitude at a time. We did not create the hate, but together we can Derate the Hate. So be sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcast. Share it with a friend and visit Braver angels.org to learn how you can get involved in the movement to bridge the partisan divide.
00:02:29:22 - 00:02:38:16
Wilk Wilkinson
Friends, I am so incredibly grateful that you have joined me for another powerful Derate the Hate episode. So let's get to it.
00:02:38:16 - 00:03:12:18
Wilk Wilkinson
My guest today is Chip Webster, a longtime business leader turned civic advocate and the founder of Unity In Service, a nonprofit dedicated to rebuilding trust and community through action, not just rhetoric. Chip believes that shared service, humility and meaningful engagement are key to mending the divides, tearing us apart. We talk about how volunteering can bridge deep political and cultural rifts, and why trust in democracy is crumbling, and how national service could help unify future generations.
00:03:12:20 - 00:03:39:06
Wilk Wilkinson
From the power of small, everyday affirmations. But Chip calls micro validations to the case for making service a rite of passage in America. This conversation is packed with powerful insight and actionable hope. So if you're tired of the shouting and want real solutions for a stronger, more unified country, this episode is definitely for you. Let's get to it with my friend Chip Webster.
00:03:39:07 - 00:03:39:19
Wilk Wilkinson
Here we go.
00:03:39:19 - 00:03:47:05
Wilk Wilkinson
Chip Webster, thank you so much for joining me on the Derate the Hate podcast. I have been looking forward to
00:03:47:05 - 00:03:49:05
Wilk Wilkinson
this conversation ever since I,
00:03:49:05 - 00:03:51:09
Wilk Wilkinson
started looking at the work that you've been doing with,
00:03:51:09 - 00:03:53:19
Wilk Wilkinson
with your organization, Unity in Service.
00:03:53:19 - 00:03:58:01
Wilk Wilkinson
I knew this was going to be a good one. So thank you so much, Chip, for joining me here today.
00:03:58:03 - 00:04:08:09
Chip Webster
Well, thanks for the invitation. I'm looking forward to the conversation. What you're doing is very important. Derating the hate. And you know what you're doing with Braver Angels. I'm. Keep it up, man.
00:04:08:11 - 00:04:16:22
Wilk Wilkinson
So so great. Then. Thank you for the kind words. I, this is a true passion of mine, as I've noticed. It is for you as well.
00:04:16:22 - 00:04:20:04
Wilk Wilkinson
I, I, you know, looking through the,
00:04:20:04 - 00:04:23:04
Wilk Wilkinson
the body of work that you have, Chip and,
00:04:23:04 - 00:04:32:02
Wilk Wilkinson
your work as a as a mentor for, you know, CEOs and things like that, but then taking that skillset into the bridge building space,
00:04:32:02 - 00:04:36:20
Wilk Wilkinson
creating Unity in Service, I want to I want to learn more about this organization.
00:04:36:22 - 00:04:41:02
Wilk Wilkinson
But first I want to first I want to tackle the,
00:04:41:02 - 00:04:41:19
Wilk Wilkinson
what was the
00:04:41:19 - 00:04:49:04
Wilk Wilkinson
catalyst that got you into this bridge building space Chip. Because it's not one that everybody gets into. And,
00:04:49:04 - 00:04:55:12
Wilk Wilkinson
when somebody with a skill set like yours decides to tackle this issue, I always want to know why.
00:04:55:12 - 00:04:57:09
Wilk Wilkinson
What brought you to,
00:04:57:09 - 00:05:02:19
Wilk Wilkinson
the idea of citizenship and bridge building and community service?
00:05:02:21 - 00:05:31:00
Chip Webster
Well, the foundation is democracy is a do it to ourselves project. And we as citizens have a responsibility to engage. As you know, only 66% of the people vote in the national elections for president. And somewhere between 40 and 45 in the mid year. And in the city and local, it's in the teens many times. And that's not acceptable.
00:05:31:00 - 00:06:00:17
Chip Webster
We're in a situation. It doesn't take a lot of attention to figure out how divided we are and becoming more divided. And there are organizations that want us to be divided. And the only way we're going to fix this division is by working together. Taking moderate liberals, moderate conservatives, people who put country ahead of party, working together to break down the barriers, to get us focus back on the things we need to do for democracy to survive.
00:06:01:11 - 00:06:17:00
Chip Webster
In my book, I talk about Alexander Taylor, and he talks about how the life cycles of a democracy and he his line was and this is back in the 1750s, in the last about 200 years, but we're pushing 250, but we're a very fragile place.
00:06:17:00 - 00:06:17:12
Chip Webster
And
00:06:17:12 - 00:06:21:14
Chip Webster
so we have to reinvent ourselves. There's a
00:06:21:14 - 00:06:28:14
Chip Webster
a wonderful it's I spent a fair amount of time with Peter Schultz who turned Porsche around and,
00:06:28:14 - 00:06:30:04
Chip Webster
he was out talking about,
00:06:30:04 - 00:06:41:12
Chip Webster
these shark odysseys, work and life cycles of organization and, and having worked in companies, having seen how they go through life cycles, every once in a while, you think of a J curve, you
00:06:41:12 - 00:06:45:23
Chip Webster
know, you it going well, and all of a sudden you start to go, damn sure,
00:06:45:23 - 00:07:17:10
Chip Webster
you have to put another J curve in, you're going to go down and then back up. And so I see this work as maybe a call to action to reinvent ourselves and start working together and get party out of the way. When, when when the when people say, I would vote for this, but because I'm a Democrat or because I'm a Republican, if I vote for it, I will be outed by the party and and neutralized by the party.
00:07:17:12 - 00:07:29:17
Chip Webster
So I have to vote differently than I believe. And I've talked to enough congresspeople, not a lot, but enough to know that that that's true. And it goes on, and we got to fix it
00:07:29:17 - 00:07:53:18
Wilk Wilkinson
We the people are absolutely the only ones that can fix it. And and I think a lot of people lose sight of that. And and some well, there's a number of things that you said there that are very important. But but putting country before party I think is a huge part of that. And then the idea that there are forces out there that which wish to keep us mad or keep us separated and keep us separated by keeping us mad.
00:07:53:20 - 00:07:57:06
Wilk Wilkinson
One of the things that we were talking about in the pre-recording here,
00:07:57:06 - 00:07:59:12
Wilk Wilkinson
was the idea that that,
00:07:59:12 - 00:08:01:06
Wilk Wilkinson
far too many people,
00:08:01:06 - 00:08:11:20
Wilk Wilkinson
just just refuse to engage until they become enraged. And then when once they've become enraged, they aren't making the best decisions. I talk about,
00:08:11:20 - 00:08:14:04
Wilk Wilkinson
a thing called what I call the fog model.
00:08:14:04 - 00:08:17:07
Wilk Wilkinson
That that is fear, outrage and grievance.
00:08:17:08 - 00:08:21:21
Wilk Wilkinson
It's a model used by by many in politics, many in the media,
00:08:21:21 - 00:08:31:04
Wilk Wilkinson
many, many people on online generally the loudest voices online, those with the most followers are heavily engaged in that
00:08:31:04 - 00:08:34:05
Wilk Wilkinson
that fog model fear, outrage and grievance.
00:08:34:07 - 00:08:34:17
Chip Webster
Right.
00:08:34:19 - 00:09:01:02
Wilk Wilkinson
You know, I don't like to ascribe motives to to people's actions. But when you look at the things that we are seeing and the things that get people to engage, the things that get the most clicks, we see that those are the things that that get people scared, that get people mad, that prey upon people's grievances, whether they're real or perceived.
00:09:01:03 - 00:09:24:18
Wilk Wilkinson
And that is not the time, in my opinion, chip, to become a engaged citizen. I think becoming an engaged citizen, the time to do that is to try and use your best and coolest head to affect change in a meaningful and positive way. So talk to me a little bit about,
00:09:24:18 - 00:09:27:20
Wilk Wilkinson
the one of the things that I've seen you say is,
00:09:27:20 - 00:09:34:05
Wilk Wilkinson
bridging divides through service, not speeches and how volunteering and shared community projects.
00:09:34:07 - 00:09:59:06
Wilk Wilkinson
One of the things that I, I, I one of the concepts that I'm passionate about is is subsidiarity and citizen led solutions and working within our communities on common cause problems. Talk a little bit about, you know, what community service and and and that pathway to responsible citizenship means to you. What is that chip?
00:09:59:08 - 00:10:07:16
Chip Webster
Well, before I answer that which I will, I think we have to understand that the press's driving force is if it bleeds, it leads.
00:10:07:16 - 00:10:08:08
Chip Webster
And
00:10:08:08 - 00:10:12:06
Chip Webster
and by dividing people we're going to get followers. So,
00:10:12:06 - 00:10:15:02
Chip Webster
the motive is not healthy.
00:10:15:02 - 00:10:24:12
Chip Webster
And, as I mentioned earlier, democracy is a do it to ourselves project. So my wife doesn't like when I say this, but we have the government, what we deserve.
00:10:24:18 - 00:10:26:19
Chip Webster
If you step back.
00:10:26:19 - 00:10:35:11
Chip Webster
Yeah. Yeah. And and it's because we're not engaged. So engagement comes across. Can come through many ways.
00:10:35:11 - 00:10:48:11
Chip Webster
And at any age. My big push is to have 18 year olds serve the country for a year to graduate from high school. Go into,
00:10:48:11 - 00:11:09:02
Chip Webster
public service program for a year someplace other than where they grew up, so that they get the diverse experience and realize when I, when I was living in LA and the big joke was that you have a map of the U.S., you had a New York, LA, and a little tiny thing between,
00:11:09:02 - 00:11:12:14
Chip Webster
and, you know, I spent a lot of time in Iowa and,
00:11:12:14 - 00:11:12:21
Chip Webster
in
00:11:12:21 - 00:11:22:12
Chip Webster
Illinois and obviously in Minnesota, the flyover states. I hate the word because that's the soul of America.
00:11:22:14 - 00:11:23:19
Wilk Wilkinson
That's the soul of America.
00:11:23:19 - 00:11:24:12
Wilk Wilkinson
I agree.
00:11:24:14 - 00:11:25:13
Chip Webster
And and,
00:11:25:13 - 00:11:27:17
Chip Webster
when Deb and I mentioned we were in Alexandria,
00:11:27:17 - 00:11:37:15
Chip Webster
walking around where I told her this is the, Minnesota nice is real. You know, people are just so friendly and smiling and say hello and,
00:11:37:15 - 00:11:42:12
Chip Webster
not so much in other parts of the country. So. So to get back to your,
00:11:42:12 - 00:11:44:17
Chip Webster
question,
00:11:44:17 - 00:11:47:05
Chip Webster
we have to turn off the TV.
00:11:47:07 - 00:11:55:04
Chip Webster
Get off the couch. Walk outside and volunteer to do something to help somebody else.
00:11:55:04 - 00:12:15:09
Chip Webster
It has wonderful mental and health benefits. When you feel like you're part of something bigger than yourself and, you know, you're, contributing to it. You're not going to be depressed. And that has impact on both your mental and physical health. And there's studies that confirm that.
00:12:15:10 - 00:12:41:04
Chip Webster
Absolutely. I was it was interesting. I was listening to an interview. I remember Bo Jackson, the great athlete, football player, and he he mentors people. And, the interviewer said, well, what, you know, what do you look for when you're a mentor? Somebody. Well, they have to be doing something. So which is the first thing you have to do if you want to be mentored is get off the couch and,
00:12:41:04 - 00:12:45:20
Chip Webster
so I'm involved with a number of nonprofits.
00:12:45:22 - 00:13:19:15
Chip Webster
What I like about both of them is they have a very diverse political perspective. And what I learned in working with people who I love and respect, but have a different view of the world, we're more alike than we are different. Absolutely. So engaging with people and getting out of your echo chamber is important, but then going to habitat for humanity, or go volunteer at a hospital or, you know, I went on, my boys were young, I coached sports.
00:13:19:17 - 00:13:22:09
Chip Webster
That's giving back to the community.
00:13:22:09 - 00:13:30:16
Chip Webster
Any way you can. And then as a responsible citizen, don't just listen to one news network.
00:13:30:16 - 00:13:38:14
Chip Webster
Take the time to listen to different perspectives and get out of the echo chamber that you've put yourself into.
00:13:38:14 - 00:13:46:22
Chip Webster
Because you're it's kind of like a, you know, people, you know, chasing your tail to you end up catching it.
00:13:47:00 - 00:13:53:14
Chip Webster
Yeah. That's what happens when people get in the echo chamber. They're just chasing the hotel and not learning anything.
00:13:53:16 - 00:13:57:00
Wilk Wilkinson
That's right. No, that's absolutely right. I,
00:13:57:00 - 00:13:57:16
Wilk Wilkinson
and I like,
00:13:57:16 - 00:14:15:06
Wilk Wilkinson
you know, the I like the fact that you bring up Bo Jackson. I mean, because as the old phrase goes, right, Bo knows that's good advice. It's it's just good advice. You know, get off the couch and do something. Find a way. Find something that shows you that,
00:14:15:06 - 00:14:18:22
Wilk Wilkinson
there's a lot out there that's much bigger than just you.
00:14:19:00 - 00:14:39:10
Wilk Wilkinson
The problem with with simply doing all this online engagement and the things that that they do it a lot of times it's just faux engagement because you are you are basically feeding from the trough that you fill. You know, you're not getting anything that,
00:14:39:10 - 00:14:39:21
Wilk Wilkinson
you,
00:14:39:21 - 00:14:46:13
Wilk Wilkinson
I mean, the, the algorithms on social media or for the news networks that you prefer,
00:14:46:13 - 00:14:51:00
Wilk Wilkinson
this, this, that you mentioned it a couple times.
00:14:51:00 - 00:14:59:18
Wilk Wilkinson
Echo chamber. We fall into these silos, and those silos are literally just filled with,
00:14:59:18 - 00:15:24:12
Wilk Wilkinson
a bunch of people saying the same things that we're saying and saying the things that we want to hear. We don't get those outside perspectives within. And it's it is it's damaging to our mental health. It does not afford us the opportunity to course correct when we are going wrong or when we're when we're when we're not thinking the right way.
00:15:24:14 - 00:15:49:19
Chip Webster
You know, trust is the foundation to every relationship, whether it's your marriage, whether it's in work, whether it's your neighbors and and trust has been declining in the US for a long time. There's a study I think it was Gallup or Pew, I can't remember which, but talked about in the 70s, 80% of the people trusted the medical system.
00:15:49:21 - 00:16:13:16
Chip Webster
39%. Universities. It was like 60s and now it's in the 20s. I mean you go down banks, same kind of thing. And the trust can only be built by personal interaction. I know now that I can trust you to show up on time. Well that's, that comes from personal experience. One on one. Yeah.
00:16:13:16 - 00:16:25:12
Chip Webster
And, and because trust is so low and going, getting worse, then we become more self selfish and self defensive and, and that's when we,
00:16:25:12 - 00:16:30:08
Chip Webster
start to dehumanize those other people that don't trust us.
00:16:30:08 - 00:16:38:06
Chip Webster
And the dehumanizing of people who think different than us is the fastest way to destroy a democracy.
00:16:38:08 - 00:16:47:05
Wilk Wilkinson
Sure. Yeah. No, I it absolutely is. I mean, trust, trust has been a huge part of my work in the depolarization movement.
00:16:47:05 - 00:17:00:03
Wilk Wilkinson
And then, ironically, that you brought it up, you know, trust in the in the, in the public health establishment, you know, trust between we the people and the public health establishment has been a big part of my work.
00:17:00:03 - 00:17:08:23
Wilk Wilkinson
You know, building relationships with but with people like Doctor Francis Collins, former head of the National Institutes of Health, Doctor Jay Bhattacharya, current
00:17:08:23 - 00:17:10:01
Wilk Wilkinson
director of the National
00:17:10:01 - 00:17:11:10
Wilk Wilkinson
Institutes of Health.
00:17:11:10 - 00:17:16:23
Wilk Wilkinson
I've been afforded the opportunity. I've been very fortunate to have conversations with some of the,
00:17:16:23 - 00:17:21:01
Wilk Wilkinson
the greatest thinkers in science and public health
00:17:21:01 - 00:17:23:09
Wilk Wilkinson
that there are and,
00:17:23:09 - 00:17:34:16
Wilk Wilkinson
and, and that degradation of trust within our public health system is, is one of the scariest things when I think about the future,
00:17:34:16 - 00:17:37:13
Wilk Wilkinson
for our children and our grandchildren and things like that.
00:17:37:15 - 00:17:40:14
Wilk Wilkinson
I mean, institutional trust. You're right. You're absolutely right.
00:17:40:14 - 00:17:42:22
Wilk Wilkinson
You you look across the board, whether it be,
00:17:42:22 - 00:17:47:08
Wilk Wilkinson
trust in Congress, trust in the media, trust in public health,
00:17:47:08 - 00:17:57:03
Wilk Wilkinson
you know, trust in in our education system, all of those things are down. And, and and many of those things I think we can get through.
00:17:57:05 - 00:18:17:01
Wilk Wilkinson
But the public health thing is pretty scary, right? Because if we lose trust or don't rebuild trust in the public health establishment, and then we find ourselves in another pandemic situation, you know, what's going to happen? Because people just,
00:18:17:01 - 00:18:22:20
Wilk Wilkinson
they're not going to respond appropriately if they don't trust the people,
00:18:22:20 - 00:18:27:10
Wilk Wilkinson
that, that are supposed to, you know, tell us what we need to do.
00:18:27:11 - 00:18:29:10
Wilk Wilkinson
You know, the same thing, I guess, with, you know,
00:18:29:10 - 00:18:52:09
Wilk Wilkinson
with our government and this is this is where I think, you know, being a responsible citizen becomes hugely important. And being engaged in politics. You talked about some statistics early in the conversation, how how so few people engage in and, you know, it just gets lower and lower and lower, like in the 60%, 66%, whatever it is for, for,
00:18:52:09 - 00:18:54:02
Wilk Wilkinson
for presidential politics.
00:18:54:02 - 00:18:59:02
Wilk Wilkinson
And then Congress is less and and then state and local is even less where, where,
00:18:59:02 - 00:19:12:16
Wilk Wilkinson
I mean, we really need to flip that because that's where we can affect the greatest change on our personal life. What's happening at our kitchen table is working through our local and municipal,
00:19:12:16 - 00:19:23:01
Wilk Wilkinson
leadership in politics, but people just don't engage. So I think trust and being a responsible citizen go hand in hand.
00:19:23:03 - 00:19:42:07
Wilk Wilkinson
So, so so tell me, you know, with your you with your organization, unity and service, what is that recipe for rebuilding trust? Chip because we need rebuilding and trust. And we need to get people engaged in local politics and then working their way up instead of vice versa.
00:19:42:09 - 00:19:51:04
Chip Webster
Well, you know, it goes back to get off the couch, go volunteer, work with people different than you get to know them.
00:19:51:04 - 00:19:53:01
Chip Webster
You know, my push for,
00:19:53:01 - 00:20:07:09
Chip Webster
18 year olds is really the foundation because we have to start working with those kids on their way to adulthood so they understand that, that it's their country. It's, you know.
00:20:07:14 - 00:20:19:20
Chip Webster
No, it was the old line. Nobody ever wants to run a car. I think there's a lot of people that think they're renting the country, and they don't have any obligation. When when we were doing our loops, we did five loops of the US in a motorhome.
00:20:19:20 - 00:20:27:01
Chip Webster
It was interesting going from state to state is, you know, each state has its culture, the Minnesota Nice culture.
00:20:27:02 - 00:20:31:10
Chip Webster
Versus other states who remain nameless. It's not so nice.
00:20:31:10 - 00:20:34:03
Chip Webster
And it was interesting watching the,
00:20:34:03 - 00:20:48:18
Chip Webster
you know, go to a rest area. You're driving for several hours. You want to stop, stretch your legs. The contrast between Utah and California rest areas was really interesting. And while they were politically,
00:20:48:18 - 00:20:55:02
Chip Webster
in California, they always have this saying thousand dollar fine for littering.
00:20:55:04 - 00:21:03:20
Chip Webster
And around that sign would be a pile of litter, literally, no pun intended. And and that's culture.
00:21:03:20 - 00:21:24:11
Chip Webster
So part of it is changing the culture. And that's why I think getting kids involved early and then it just looking in the mirror and saying, this is my country, it's my responsibility. I'm going to turn off the TV and go out and volunteer, be a scout leader, be,
00:21:24:11 - 00:21:27:06
Chip Webster
go to hospitals and be, you know, what do they call a candy striper?
00:21:27:07 - 00:21:37:02
Chip Webster
I don't care what it is, but be part of something bigger than yourself. Democracy is all about being part of something bigger than ourselves. And,
00:21:37:02 - 00:21:47:07
Chip Webster
most people don't understand that. I can remember. You know, you go to these RV parks and you start talking to people and there were several people that were going to complain about where we were.
00:21:47:07 - 00:22:05:01
Chip Webster
And they said, well, it's our fault. And they will look at me like I had to hit. It is our fault. This is what we've tolerated. And we've also tolerated is the lies that are told about people running for office. One of the reasons really good people don't want to run for office is the damage it does to their family.
00:22:05:02 - 00:22:12:23
Chip Webster
When you think about the, you know, recent Supreme Court justices and total fabric sessions,
00:22:12:23 - 00:22:35:08
Chip Webster
about their lives never challenged or when they're challenged, they're kind of Pooh poohed. Yeah. So why why would you want to do that? And yet we need we need the best people. I think it was John Adams to John Quincy Adams who said, if the good I'm paraphrasing, if the good men don't run bad, men will.
00:22:35:10 - 00:22:35:22
Wilk Wilkinson
That's right.
00:22:36:03 - 00:22:38:00
Chip Webster
I give you exhibit A.
00:22:38:02 - 00:22:43:20
Wilk Wilkinson
Oh yeah. Oh, that's absolutely right. And that's, that's this is why I came up with the phrase
00:22:43:20 - 00:22:50:00
Wilk Wilkinson
oh a while back. I said, those who, represents are far too often not the best of us.
00:22:50:00 - 00:22:58:06
Wilk Wilkinson
it's one of these things that is probably the saddest thing that I've seen. And even those that. And this goes to your point.
00:22:58:08 - 00:23:01:01
Wilk Wilkinson
Even those that that may be are,
00:23:01:01 - 00:23:17:18
Wilk Wilkinson
amongst what I would call the best of us are often not the ones that are seeking out that microphone and spending all of their times in front of the cameras and, and I think it is sad because you're right. It does dissuade people from,
00:23:17:18 - 00:23:40:01
Wilk Wilkinson
from running for public office. It does dissuade people from wanting to volunteer within great organizations, because they feel that and when I say they, I, I'm saying that from personal experience and I've, I believe that you've had similar experiences to this as well.
00:23:40:01 - 00:24:10:21
Wilk Wilkinson
And we've both talked to people who have had this experience that if they speak up about how they really feel about certain things, they will be demonized and castigated and, and they're afraid of. I mean, we live in an age of cancel culture and constant outrage. So so they put their livelihoods and their their dignity and their, you know, what's going on with them on the line to try and better,
00:24:10:21 - 00:24:19:10
Wilk Wilkinson
a country that they probably love or they do love or they wouldn't probably say it or even have any meaningful feelings about it anyway.
00:24:19:12 - 00:24:32:13
Wilk Wilkinson
But then they are demonized and castigated for it and possibly canceled and lose their jobs. Talk a little bit about that, because that is one of the the biggest downfalls. And I think you're you're right when you you know,
00:24:32:13 - 00:24:37:11
Wilk Wilkinson
well, I think we've both said it in a couple different ways that that does,
00:24:37:11 - 00:24:45:20
Wilk Wilkinson
inhibit people's desire to, to get involved, to get engaged because of that.
00:24:45:22 - 00:24:53:03
Chip Webster
Well, diversity has been misconstrued with some very rigid lines and diversity
00:24:53:03 - 00:25:27:10
Chip Webster
and diversity. That's important in a democracy is diversity of thought and experience. Yes. Not diversity of, you know, pick a flavor. So we've allowed quote unquote, cancel culture to destroy freedom of speech. I can't remember who said it. I'm going to mess it up. But the essence of if you want to be in a creative dynamic atmosphere, culture, you have to be able to talk and say whatever is on your mind.
00:25:27:11 - 00:25:50:18
Chip Webster
Once you start cutting off somebody saying certain words. The communication starts to break down and you're not getting the full idea. Creativity is brainstorming. A lot of the times in my coaching, we do brainstorming sessions. Just throw stuff out there. Makes sense, doesn't make sense. Just put it up there. The bad ones will go away. We'll find the best ones.
00:25:50:20 - 00:26:13:06
Chip Webster
But when you will, I can't say that. Or if I say that I'm going to get fired for saying that. You know nobody like me anymore. That just cuts down communication. And so freedom of speech is doesn't exist. And certainly cancel culture, as I understand it, is big on that. And also the people who've lost their jobs. It's just.
00:26:13:08 - 00:26:13:22
Wilk Wilkinson
Yeah.
00:26:14:00 - 00:26:18:12
Chip Webster
It's it's terrible to say somebody lost their job because they said what they thought. I mean.
00:26:18:14 - 00:26:19:21
Wilk Wilkinson
No, that's absolutely right.
00:26:19:23 - 00:26:22:08
Chip Webster
If you read 1984,
00:26:22:08 - 00:26:36:10
Chip Webster
the truth police and that's that's what you're allowing to happen is you're allowing somebody the same. Now, this is the truth. Anybody who thinks in any way different is subhuman. Sorry. It's not going to work.
00:26:36:12 - 00:26:39:16
Wilk Wilkinson
That's just not going to work. You know, when you start to,
00:26:39:16 - 00:26:41:12
Wilk Wilkinson
when you start to to send out the,
00:26:41:12 - 00:26:44:04
Wilk Wilkinson
the truth police under the direction of the,
00:26:44:04 - 00:26:55:23
Wilk Wilkinson
misinformation czar, you are going to have a lot of problems. We cannot have a functioning democracy, chip, without the freedom of speech. That's why it was the First Amendment right?
00:26:56:00 - 00:27:00:01
Wilk Wilkinson
It's the it's the the most vital, the most important,
00:27:00:01 - 00:27:04:20
Wilk Wilkinson
thing that we have as, as Americans is, is the ability to speak,
00:27:04:20 - 00:27:05:15
Wilk Wilkinson
speak freely
00:27:05:15 - 00:27:27:20
Wilk Wilkinson
about what we believe and then share in that democracy of ideas and, and do things. That's one of the things that I absolutely love about Braver Angels. The organization that I've done so much work with over the years is the one of the one of the the core principles is to free, speak freely, fully and without fear.
00:27:27:22 - 00:27:32:13
Wilk Wilkinson
It's it's hugely important for us to do that,
00:27:32:13 - 00:27:44:10
Wilk Wilkinson
because if we don't, if people start to self-censor because their fear of, retribution from from those who don't think the way that they do,
00:27:44:10 - 00:27:58:00
Wilk Wilkinson
when when self-censorship starts as a general practice amongst a certain group of people, you know, one of a couple things is going to happen, but quite often it leads back to what what I was talking about earlier.
00:27:58:04 - 00:28:27:09
Wilk Wilkinson
Right. People don't engage until they become enraged. And once they've become enraged, the way that they're going to engage is not the best way to engage. Right. And I think that's a lot of what we're seeing today, is people who did not engage until they became enraged because they were self-censoring. And it's a full circle nasty or a full circle of nasty that leads to a bunch of the worst doing what they do.
00:28:27:11 - 00:28:50:23
Chip Webster
Yeah, I George Orwell's Animal Farm flash for my mind when we were talking, you know, all animals, all animals are equal except some animals more equal than others. No, the truth are the ones are more equal than others. And I mean, that's doesn't work.
00:28:51:00 - 00:29:01:08
Wilk Wilkinson
No, it absolutely does not work. It it like I said, it it ultimately leads to ultimately leads to to nothing but but more ugly and then
00:29:01:08 - 00:29:17:08
Wilk Wilkinson
and then we end up in a society where, where, you know, we are forced to course correct through the ugliest means possible and, and everything's, you know, just nothing. Nothing tends to go well at that point.
00:29:17:10 - 00:29:22:15
Wilk Wilkinson
Chip, so talk to me a little bit more about,
00:29:22:15 - 00:29:25:11
Wilk Wilkinson
this, this book that you have,
00:29:25:11 - 00:29:37:16
Wilk Wilkinson
out recently called Unity in Service. I know that's the the that's the name of your organization as well, right. Unity and service. But but there's a book that goes along with that. What are people going to find in,
00:29:37:16 - 00:29:39:05
Wilk Wilkinson
unity in Service,
00:29:39:05 - 00:29:40:10
Wilk Wilkinson
the book and then
00:29:40:10 - 00:29:46:07
Wilk Wilkinson
and then obviously I want to continue to promote the website Unity and Service Board, but tell people here at the,
00:29:46:07 - 00:29:48:15
Wilk Wilkinson
podcast, what are they going to find in that book?
00:29:48:18 - 00:29:50:13
Chip Webster
It's a series of essays.
00:29:50:13 - 00:29:57:17
Chip Webster
Starts with an open letter to the people of the United States. Ultimately, a call to action. It talks about why tribes exist.
00:29:57:17 - 00:30:07:10
Chip Webster
Talks about the life cycle of democracies, talks about what a responsible citizen looks like, talks about how do we hold the media,
00:30:07:10 - 00:30:09:15
Chip Webster
and politicians accountable.
00:30:09:15 - 00:30:13:08
Chip Webster
So it's all very much this progression,
00:30:13:08 - 00:30:18:23
Chip Webster
and then talking about getting out and, and serving the community and being part of something bigger than yourself.
00:30:19:01 - 00:30:22:11
Chip Webster
And then ultimately, the, the big ask, which is,
00:30:22:11 - 00:30:24:23
Chip Webster
should require a national service.
00:30:24:23 - 00:30:51:00
Chip Webster
I also put the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution and the Gettysburg Address in there so people can refer to it. That's our foundation. And if there was, if there's one thing that came out of it and my action items, it's get engaged. But I also talked about something kind of tangential to what we're talking about before.
00:30:51:02 - 00:30:53:21
Chip Webster
Have you ever heard the term microaggression?
00:30:53:23 - 00:30:55:11
Wilk Wilkinson
Oh for sure.
00:30:55:13 - 00:30:56:04
Chip Webster
To me,
00:30:56:04 - 00:31:00:15
Chip Webster
anybody who is offended by a microaggression hasn't grown up yet.
00:31:00:15 - 00:31:12:22
Chip Webster
When I when I was a kid, I had older sisters, and we used to call each other's names, and, you know, sticks and stones will break my bones, but names will ever hurt me. And if you're so,
00:31:12:22 - 00:31:20:16
Chip Webster
fragile emotionally that if somebody says I don't agree with you, it puts you into a tizzy, you need to grow up.
00:31:20:18 - 00:31:28:00
Chip Webster
One of the things I suggest we do, and your listeners can do this starting tonight or tomorrow,
00:31:28:00 - 00:31:51:02
Chip Webster
is what I then put in the book, which I now call micro validations. We need to validate each other as being human, not the other. And so if you take the time when you're walking into a store to open the door for somebody and let them walk through, if you're driving and somebody's trying to get in, back off, let them in, wave them in.
00:31:51:04 - 00:32:03:16
Chip Webster
Validate. People think. Clerks think people tell them how much you appreciate them. That's part of our culture, too. That needs to be changed. It's I walk all over these cities,
00:32:03:16 - 00:32:06:19
Chip Webster
and I walk a lot in Chula Vista,
00:32:06:19 - 00:32:14:23
Chip Webster
which is San Diego. And it's just how many people won't engage. You try and smile at them or say something.
00:32:15:01 - 00:32:35:20
Chip Webster
They look the other way. But when you do catch somebody and you smile at them and say hello, some of them light up Christmas trees. It's like the only person has said hi to them in a month. Exactly. And we need that. As human beings. We need to be validated. I see you is such an important part of being human or being seen.
00:32:35:22 - 00:32:38:04
Wilk Wilkinson
But that couldn't be more important.
00:32:38:04 - 00:32:38:23
Wilk Wilkinson
Chip,
00:32:38:23 - 00:32:47:16
Wilk Wilkinson
I've said for a long time, smiles and bad moods are contagious, so choose wisely. I love the idea of micro validations and,
00:32:47:16 - 00:32:56:04
Wilk Wilkinson
and yeah, it's that is one of the things that that we are sorely in need of in this country again. So thank you for bringing that up.
00:32:56:04 - 00:33:00:16
Wilk Wilkinson
Micro validations is a beautiful thing. I've never heard it put that way. And,
00:33:00:16 - 00:33:08:04
Wilk Wilkinson
that is definitely something that I'm going to think more about. That is a beautiful action item to to end on here, the website,
00:33:08:04 - 00:33:13:20
Wilk Wilkinson
in the website and the book A Unity in Service of the book Unity in service.org.
00:33:13:20 - 00:33:14:19
Wilk Wilkinson
You can find out more
00:33:14:19 - 00:33:16:04
Wilk Wilkinson
about Chip Webster.
00:33:16:06 - 00:33:18:06
Wilk Wilkinson
Chip, thank you so much for joining me.
00:33:18:06 - 00:33:20:06
Wilk Wilkinson
Here today. This is incredible. And,
00:33:20:06 - 00:33:24:01
Wilk Wilkinson
I've enjoyed the conversation and I look forward to, more collaboration in the future.
00:33:24:06 - 00:33:26:05
Chip Webster
Thanks, Wilk. I enjoyed it very much.
00:33:26:05 - 00:33:56:01
Wilk Wilkinson
Friends, I want to thank you so much for tuning in. And if there's anything in this episode that provided exceptional value to you, please make sure to hit that share button. If you haven't done so already, please be sure to subscribe to get the Derate the Hate podcast sent to your email inbox every week. We really are better together, so please take a moment to visit Braver angels.org and consider joining the movement towards civic renewal and bridging our political divides.
00:33:56:03 - 00:34:19:09
Wilk Wilkinson
This is Wilk wrapping up for the week saying get out there. Be kind to one another. Be grateful for everything you've got. And remember it's up to you to make every day the day that you want it to be. With that, my friends, I'm going to back on out of here and we will catch you next week. Take care.
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