Send Wilk a text with your feedback!
Speaking Out With Courage When It Matters Most
Jennifer Sey’s journey is nothing short of extraordinary. From becoming the 1986 U.S. Women’s All-Around National Gymnastics Champion to climbing the corporate ladder as Levi’s Brand President, her path has been marked by both triumph and turbulence. What makes her story remarkable is her willingness to speak truth when silence would have been safer.
In her memoir Chalked Up and later as producer of Netflix’s Athlete A, Sey pulled back the curtain on the abusive culture inside elite gymnastics. She transformed her personal pain into advocacy that gave countless gymnasts the courage to acknowledge their own experiences.
At Levi Strauss & Co., Jen was one of the most powerful voices in fashion and marketing. But when COVID lockdowns closed schools — in some places for more than a year — she spoke out. While many stayed silent for fear of losing careers, Jen refused. Her outspokenness cost her a 23-year career, a community of colleagues, and even friendships, but she refused to sacrifice the truth. Her book Levi’s Unbuttoned tells this story of standing up for children against a tide of fear and conformity.
Today, Jen is focused on two bold ventures:
Generation Covid (film): a raw documentary capturing the unseen struggles of kids and families impacted by prolonged school closures.
XX-XY Athletics (brand): a new clothing line committed to fairness in women’s sports and the protection of female athletes.
âś… Courage is not the absence of fear, but moving forward despite it
✅ Speaking the truth can cost you friends, jobs, and status — but it may save others.
âś… Lockdowns and school closures harmed the most vulnerable children while elites escaped the consequences.
âś… Gratitude and resilience are essential to avoid being consumed by anger.
âś… Every one of us has a role to play in defending truth, fairness, and the future of our children.
The world is a better place if we are better people. That begins with each of us as individuals. Be kind to one another. Be grateful for all you’ve got. Make every day the day that you want it to be!
Please follow The Derate The Hate podcast on:
Facebook, Instagram, Twitter(X) , YouTube
Subscribe to us wherever you enjoy your audio or from our site. Please leave us a rating and feedback on Apple podcasts or other platforms. You can share your thoughts or request Wilk for a speaking engagement on our contact page: DerateTheHate.com/Contact
The Derate The Hate podcast is proudly produced in collaboration with Braver Angels — America’s largest grassroots, cross-partisan organization working toward civic renewal and bridging partisan divides. Learn more: BraverAngels.org
Welcome to the Derate The Hate Podcast!
*The views expressed by Wilk, his guest hosts &/or guests on the Derate The Hate podcast are their own and should not be attributed to any organization they may otherwise be affiliated with.
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:23:22
Wilk Wilkinson
What does it take to speak the truth when fear, ridicule and even your career are on the line? Jennifer Sey has lived that answer, from exposing abuse in elite gymnastics to defying corporate silence to standing up for children during the pandemic. Her story is about courage in the face of consequence, and it's one that you're not going to want to miss.
00:00:23:22 - 00:01:13:07
Wilk Wilkinson
Welcome back, my friends, for the Derate the Hate podcast. I'm your host, Wilk Wilkinson, your blue collar sage calming outrage and helping to navigate a world divided by fog and those who would spread that fear, outrage and grievance. The Derate the Hate podcast is proudly produced in collaboration with Braver Angels, America's largest grassroots cross. partisan organization working towards civic renewal.
00:01:13:09 - 00:01:40:13
Wilk Wilkinson
This podcast amplifies the mission that we share to foster a more respectful and united America where civic friendship thrives even when we disagree. Each week, through the power of story, conversation, and connection with incredible guests, we work to build bridges instead of barriers, not to change minds on the issues, but to change how we see one another when we differ.
00:01:40:15 - 00:02:04:22
Wilk Wilkinson
Because friends, it really is about bettering the world one attitude at a time. We did not create the hate, but together we can Derate the Hate. So be sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcast. Share it with a friend and visit Braver angels.org to learn how you can get involved in the movement to bridge the partisan divide.
00:02:05:00 - 00:02:13:18
Wilk Wilkinson
Friends, I am so incredibly grateful that you have joined me for another powerful Derate the Hate episode. So let's get to it.
00:02:14:11 - 00:02:44:02
Speaker 1
Today's guest is someone whose life story reads like a masterclass in courage. Jennifer Sey is a seven time U.S. national team gymnast and the 1986 all around national champion, who became one of the first athletes to speak out against the culture of abuse in her sport. Her memoir, Chalked Up and the Emmy winning Netflix documentary athlete A, gave voice to countless gymnasts who had been silenced for decades.
00:02:44:19 - 00:02:56:21
Speaker 1
But Jen's courage did not stop there. After rising to the top of Levi Strauss and Company as brand president, she made national headlines by standing against school closures during Covid,
00:02:56:21 - 00:03:15:07
Speaker 1
sacrificing a 23 year career rather than her principles. She tells that story in her book Levi's Unbuttoned. Today, she's the founder and CEO of XX-XY Athletics, the only athletic brand openly defending fairness and women's sports.
00:03:15:09 - 00:03:33:12
Speaker 1
And she's producing the upcoming documentary Generation Covid. Jennifer Sey’s journey is one of candor, resilience and relentless commitment to the truth, no matter the cost. Let's get into it with my friend Jennifer. Say. Here we go.
00:03:33:12 - 00:03:39:18
Wilk Wilkinson
Jennifer Sey thank you for joining me on the Derate the Hate podcast. I am so grateful to see you today.
00:03:39:20 - 00:03:41:16
Jennifer Sey
So happy to be here.
00:03:41:18 - 00:03:43:02
Wilk Wilkinson
It's wonderful. I,
00:03:43:02 - 00:03:45:14
Wilk Wilkinson
I've been following your work for a little while, Jen. And
00:03:45:14 - 00:03:48:21
Wilk Wilkinson
the story or stories,
00:03:48:21 - 00:03:53:01
Wilk Wilkinson
that you have and have to tell are so powerful.
00:03:53:01 - 00:03:54:05
Wilk Wilkinson
One of the things,
00:03:54:05 - 00:04:05:03
Wilk Wilkinson
people know about me, the work that I do at Braver Angels. But one of the core tenets of that Braver Angels is, is encouraging people to speak up freely, fully, without fear.
00:04:05:05 - 00:04:14:21
Wilk Wilkinson
That's not always possible in in our everyday lives. And a lot of people in, in the past, several years have experienced,
00:04:14:21 - 00:04:22:21
Wilk Wilkinson
some, some ugliness as a result of trying to speak up freely, fully and without fear. And and I never want to,
00:04:22:21 - 00:04:26:03
Wilk Wilkinson
tell people to get themselves in trouble at work because,
00:04:26:03 - 00:04:26:16
Wilk Wilkinson
Right.
00:04:26:16 - 00:04:28:10
Wilk Wilkinson
that's that's how they support themselves.
00:04:28:10 - 00:04:28:14
Wilk Wilkinson
But,
00:04:28:14 - 00:04:53:22
Wilk Wilkinson
somebody who for, for decades now has spoken freely, fully without fear, and dealt with some ugly consequences for that. But I want to I want to start a conversation today, Jen, with with your days as a gymnast and. Yeah, and some of the things then that needed to be said but weren't being said.
00:04:54:00 - 00:05:00:06
Jennifer Sey
Yeah, I, I want to add one thing to what you just said, which is I don't know that anyone ever does it without fear.
00:05:00:06 - 00:05:10:19
Jennifer Sey
The question is, how do you kind of go forward with fear? And that's really, to my mind, what courage is like. You don't have to eliminate the fear. That's human. But how do you kind of push forward and overcome it?
00:05:10:19 - 00:05:12:17
Jennifer Sey
Because I'm always terrified to say,
00:05:12:17 - 00:05:26:09
Jennifer Sey
I was a gymnast as a young person in the 1980s, a very successful gymnast. I was like an eight time national team member, and I was a national champion in 1986. Some argue the worst national champion ever. Really push back on that.
00:05:26:09 - 00:05:28:21
Jennifer Sey
But that was still what I was.
00:05:28:23 - 00:05:31:23
Jennifer Sey
It was a really abusive training environment.
00:05:31:23 - 00:05:42:21
Jennifer Sey
Emotionally, physically. And as everybody knows, at this point, there was rampant sexual abuse as well that was exposed with that. Larry sir, who was the trainer for, doctor for team USA.
00:05:42:21 - 00:05:47:17
Jennifer Sey
He started around the year that I finished, so I evaded him.
00:05:47:17 - 00:05:48:23
Jennifer Sey
But it was the culture.
00:05:48:23 - 00:05:51:03
Jennifer Sey
I think it's still the culture. I'll be frank.
00:05:51:03 - 00:05:59:01
Jennifer Sey
It's hard to undo these things. It's hard to change a culture that's been entrenched for 50 years. But I do think,
00:05:59:01 - 00:06:11:11
Jennifer Sey
because of how it's been exposed, it's it's changing. It's slow. And so I grew up in an environment where young athletes were to be seen and not heard.
00:06:11:13 - 00:06:13:21
Jennifer Sey
Obedience was literally,
00:06:13:21 - 00:06:15:09
Jennifer Sey
almost beaten. And it was,
00:06:15:09 - 00:06:23:07
Jennifer Sey
certainly drilled into us. The kids that spoke up in their own defense, the kids that said, no, I'm not going to do that like you did last on the team long.
00:06:23:07 - 00:06:30:22
Jennifer Sey
If you made the national team, you would not find yourself in the rotation. I mean, we were taught from a very young age to just keep our mouths shut.
00:06:30:22 - 00:06:39:00
Jennifer Sey
So I don't come by this naturally. I'll just say that I had to fight for my own voice in many ways.
00:06:39:00 - 00:06:49:18
Jennifer Sey
But 20 years after I left the sport, I was. Despite being a successful person. Yeah, I was grown up. I had two kids at the time. I was an avid two at the time. I was a vice president already.
00:06:49:20 - 00:07:10:21
Jennifer Sey
In the corporate world, I had a successful career, but I really suffered and struggled with low self-esteem and anxiety and depression, and I just I felt bad about myself all the time. But I guess not debilitating ways, but in ways that were definitely not allowing me to kind of optimize my happiness,
00:07:10:21 - 00:07:17:16
Jennifer Sey
I’m not a big ruminator or and I wasn't in tons of therapy and I wasn't medicated, but I wanted to feel better.
00:07:17:16 - 00:07:25:04
Jennifer Sey
it did make up my I was very rational about it. Right. Like my like it didn't make sense that I felt this way when I had a successful career. Two kids,
00:07:25:04 - 00:07:27:13
Jennifer Sey
like, everything should have been good.
00:07:27:13 - 00:07:32:20
Jennifer Sey
But I was so unbelievably hard on myself, and I always felt like a failure. And so I wrote the book.
00:07:32:20 - 00:07:56:01
Jennifer Sey
I sort of sat down to think about these things and I sat down in a room by myself and wrote my first book called Chalked Up, which came out in 2008. And it is really much, very much about the abuse in the sport. I did it as like my own exercise to understand what happened, and it allowed me to understand that this culture that I grew up in, it was not tough coaching, it was abuse.
00:07:56:01 - 00:08:02:05
Jennifer Sey
And that's why I felt the way that I did. And it was like for me, understanding it allowed me to get past it.
00:08:02:07 - 00:08:03:03
Wilk Wilkinson
Okay.
00:08:03:05 - 00:08:21:15
Jennifer Sey
But I put myself in this situation like I didn't go out there screaming about it. I wrote a book by myself in my room. I didn't think all that much about what the reception would be. I did sort of tell myself in my mind, be as honest as you can about yourself when that's reflects poorly on you, when there's ugly parts about yourself and
00:08:21:15 - 00:08:24:03
Jennifer Sey
the ugliest things that you maybe feel ashamed of.
00:08:24:05 - 00:08:32:09
Jennifer Sey
These are the things. If this book ever sees the light of day, that will help other people, so you should be as honest as you can. So that's what I did.
00:08:32:11 - 00:08:35:21
Wilk Wilkinson
That is amazing. And I mean, it takes incredible courage.
00:08:35:21 - 00:08:40:09
Wilk Wilkinson
And that's, that's one of the things that I want to ask about because,
00:08:40:09 - 00:08:58:12
Wilk Wilkinson
knowing what you knew about the sport and knowing what you knew about that culture and knowing that, that there were so many people that that experienced what you experienced but never did speak up or,
00:08:58:12 - 00:09:00:11
Wilk Wilkinson
whether it be for lack of courage
00:09:00:11 - 00:09:07:22
Wilk Wilkinson
or that they, that they just didn't want to be labeled as that person or whatever,
00:09:07:22 - 00:09:10:01
Wilk Wilkinson
whatever it was.
00:09:10:03 - 00:09:13:12
Wilk Wilkinson
But what do you think it was inside you, Jennifer, that
00:09:13:12 - 00:09:32:09
Wilk Wilkinson
That said, hey, I've, I've actually I mean, you talked about the not being happy part, but what was it that that gave you that spark, that spark of courage that said, no, this story has to be told.
00:09:32:11 - 00:09:47:11
Jennifer Sey
I think a lot of people don't speak up in the sport because they almost suffer from what I would describe as Stockholm syndrome. They don't see it. They're still sort of held captive to it. They still want to please the coaches and the culture. They don't even see it,
00:09:47:11 - 00:09:59:19
Jennifer Sey
which I find just terribly sad. And one of the things I'm most proud of is because of this book and because of a film I made later, Athlete A, and allowed some many gymnasts to see that what they experienced was abuse.
00:09:59:23 - 00:10:03:21
Jennifer Sey
Because we're told it's tough coaching and you're weak if you suffer.
00:10:03:21 - 00:10:25:00
Jennifer Sey
And then we believe that and carry that into our adulthood. I guess I knew somewhere in my heart of hearts that I wasn't weak, that I was strong, and that I didn't deserve to feel this way, and that I should not be going through my day with this amount of anxiety and sadness and self-loathing, there was no reason for it.
00:10:25:00 - 00:10:51:13
Jennifer Sey
I knew in my heart that I was smart and a good person, and I treat others with kindness, and I shouldn't think everything's my fault. It shouldn't always feel like I'm failing as a mom and a wife and an executive. And like, it just didn't make sense. Like it just defied any sort of basic common sense and I just sort of knew that somewhere in my in myself,
00:10:51:13 - 00:11:14:13
Jennifer Sey
Yeah. And I knew if I could dive into it, I could make it maybe make more sense. And I really started to understand that the tactics deployed by my coaches, by USA gymnastics, they're just they're cult like and they're abusive. Yeah. If you tell a child, a 13 year old child who weighs,
00:11:14:13 - 00:11:20:01
Jennifer Sey
80 pounds, that you have to lose 3 pounds by tomorrow by any means necessary.
00:11:20:01 - 00:11:49:10
Jennifer Sey
I don't care how you do it. I don't coach fat gymnasts. And you say that on the loudspeaker and again so everybody can hear it. That's not tough coaching. That is child abuse. If you force a child to train on broken bones, that's child abuse. If you have the doctor come in and shoot a child, a minor child up with corticosteroids every few weeks so they can keep training on those broken bones that child abuse.
00:11:49:12 - 00:11:53:14
Jennifer Sey
And so I don't know, I guess,
00:11:53:14 - 00:11:54:06
Jennifer Sey
they say when,
00:11:54:06 - 00:12:10:00
Jennifer Sey
addicts, you have to hit bottom to kind of want it bad enough to climb out. I think I just, I mean, I didn't have like an ugly bottom, but I just didn't want to feel that way anymore. And I was willing to do the work to use their afterwards.
00:12:10:02 - 00:12:10:11
Jennifer Sey
Yeah.
00:12:10:11 - 00:12:27:22
Jennifer Sey
To, to feel better. And I wanted to do it myself. I didn't want to be guided by a therapist. I didn't want medication. I, I knew that there was a thing. I knew that it was wrong and that I had been told that there was nothing wrong with this coaching, and it was me. And I had this sorted.
00:12:28:00 - 00:12:40:03
Jennifer Sey
So I don't know. I don't know what to tell you. People ask that all the time, but I will tell you this. Wilk, that once you start down this path of speaking out, it does get easier over time.
00:12:40:03 - 00:12:48:20
Jennifer Sey
when the book first came out, it was right before the Olympics in 2008. And the pushback was intense from my own teammates, from,
00:12:48:20 - 00:12:52:04
Jennifer Sey
team USA, from USA gymnastics and USA, OPC.
00:12:52:04 - 00:12:54:12
Jennifer Sey
And at first I kind of retract,
00:12:54:12 - 00:12:58:15
Jennifer Sey
I kind of like pulled back a little bit and I was,
00:12:58:15 - 00:13:07:02
Jennifer Sey
it's say, oh, it's not the sport. This is not an indictment of sport. This is just my experience. And then I was like, no, it is the sport. It's
00:13:07:02 - 00:13:09:19
Jennifer Sey
I'm not going. I got braver I,
00:13:09:19 - 00:13:13:05
Jennifer Sey
and I became more assertive and more outspoken.
00:13:13:05 - 00:13:22:10
Jennifer Sey
And I think it really set me up to do, to be as outspoken as I was during, during Covid. And,
00:13:22:10 - 00:13:35:09
Jennifer Sey
the thing that guides me is really just standing up for children, because I guess I look back on my childhood and I think, gosh, there was so much good that came from gymnastics, and it could have all been good.
00:13:35:11 - 00:13:48:11
Jennifer Sey
And yet no adult who should have known better, no parent, no sane coach in the gym, no one spoke out in our defense. Yeah. And so I just would I want to be that adult.
00:13:48:13 - 00:13:49:13
Wilk Wilkinson
Yeah. And
00:13:49:13 - 00:13:52:15
Wilk Wilkinson
people should be, immensely grateful.
00:13:52:15 - 00:13:55:03
Wilk Wilkinson
Jen, that that that people,
00:13:55:03 - 00:13:56:01
Wilk Wilkinson
like, you,
00:13:56:01 - 00:13:59:21
Wilk Wilkinson
were, what, standing up for, for children then
00:13:59:21 - 00:14:05:01
Wilk Wilkinson
and standing up for children now and then, standing up for women now. So like you said,
00:14:05:01 - 00:14:08:11
Wilk Wilkinson
you found a place. You found a voice.
00:14:08:13 - 00:14:23:22
Wilk Wilkinson
You it it does become easier as people start standing up for what they know is right. And and while it is incredibly difficult, it takes incredible courage and it it will continue to take courage. Like you said,
00:14:23:22 - 00:14:27:19
Wilk Wilkinson
at the beginning of this conversation, it's not that there's not fear.
00:14:27:19 - 00:14:31:20
Wilk Wilkinson
you're terrified at times to to stand up and say what you say.
00:14:31:22 - 00:14:34:23
Wilk Wilkinson
But what I found in my work, Jen, is that
00:14:34:23 - 00:14:40:10
Wilk Wilkinson
the real growth doesn't, doesn't come inside our comfort zone.
00:14:40:10 - 00:14:54:08
Wilk Wilkinson
we cannot just pretend that that if we don't step out once in a while and some of us will step out further than others, and that's fine. But, real growth is not going to come inside our comfort zone.
00:14:54:10 - 00:14:57:19
Wilk Wilkinson
We have to have the courage to stand up and speak out and
00:14:57:19 - 00:15:00:10
Wilk Wilkinson
so let's transition a little bit because
00:15:00:10 - 00:15:07:05
Wilk Wilkinson
your time as a gymnast and then speaking out with the book chalked up and then and then athlete a
00:15:07:05 - 00:15:09:03
Wilk Wilkinson
it's become a movie.
00:15:09:03 - 00:15:13:17
Wilk Wilkinson
In 2020 we reached the point of the pandemic and you are
00:15:13:17 - 00:15:18:06
Wilk Wilkinson
you are a successful business executive with with Levi's at that time.
00:15:18:08 - 00:15:29:00
Wilk Wilkinson
And you start it probably that instinct kicked in again, right? Somebody somebody needs to speak up for the children. And,
00:15:29:00 - 00:15:41:23
Wilk Wilkinson
some of us, I think a lot more than than than has ever been known, were speaking up and saying, hey, there's a problem here. We need to think about this. We need to look at this a little bit deeper.
00:15:42:04 - 00:15:50:23
Wilk Wilkinson
We need to get the conversation going. It needs to happen. But back to that thing that I was saying earlier is self-censorship.
00:15:50:23 - 00:15:54:15
Wilk Wilkinson
Was it more than any time in my lifetime?
00:15:54:15 - 00:15:58:16
Wilk Wilkinson
Yeah. That self-censorship thing started kicking in and
00:15:58:16 - 00:16:05:05
Wilk Wilkinson
for good reason, because people were losing their jobs, losing their career because of it. So so talk to me then,
00:16:05:05 - 00:16:06:06
Wilk Wilkinson
Jen, about
00:16:06:06 - 00:16:16:13
Wilk Wilkinson
where you were in your career at Levi's and then what made you say, I've got to start speaking up again?
00:16:16:15 - 00:16:26:14
Jennifer Sey
Yeah. I think one important point I would just mention is by about 2018, I was completely redeemed in the gymnastics and sport community.
00:16:26:14 - 00:16:42:14
Jennifer Sey
And then Athlete Aid came out in 2020. And, I mean, it was like I had gone from being persona non grata this like horrible week, ridiculous person who was smearing coaches and gymnasts back in 2008 to a hero who saw it and spoke out.
00:16:42:14 - 00:16:48:06
Jennifer Sey
So maybe I was riding a little high. I don't know, maybe I had a little bit of overconfidence.
00:16:48:06 - 00:17:00:22
Jennifer Sey
That that is. I'm joking, of course, but I did sort of come to see that. If you say the thing and you say the truth thing, the truth does out in the end, it might take a decade, it might take a really long time.
00:17:01:00 - 00:17:13:11
Jennifer Sey
But after ten years, 12 years of speaking out about this abuse, it came out that I had told the truth all along. So I just I believed truth out in the end. And I think that,
00:17:13:11 - 00:17:20:21
Jennifer Sey
I have some sort of like a, like, I cannot say a lie, I just won't do it. And,
00:17:20:21 - 00:17:23:10
Jennifer Sey
it just seemed so clear to me at the start of Covid.
00:17:23:10 - 00:17:29:10
Jennifer Sey
And keep in mind, I lived in San Francisco, so it was about as bad as it could be in San Francisco. The lockdowns,
00:17:29:10 - 00:17:32:09
Jennifer Sey
schools were closed there for close to 19 months.
00:17:32:09 - 00:17:39:23
Jennifer Sey
Kids had disrupted schooling for another year and a half after that, we waited. Wilk, every day we were like on pins and needles, like, can we go to dark orange?
00:17:39:23 - 00:17:44:04
Jennifer Sey
So we're allowed to go to the park like it was this insane system. And,
00:17:44:04 - 00:17:56:03
Jennifer Sey
I just from the very beginning, my husband and I and I have to say that was incredibly helpful. I know couples that were not in agreement on this, but he and I were in lockstep from day one, so I always had him. I could turn to,
00:17:56:03 - 00:17:58:01
Jennifer Sey
to say, I'm not crazy, right?
00:17:58:01 - 00:18:11:15
Jennifer Sey
I'm not crazy, right. And all the facts for anyone who filed along every day say we didn't know in the beginning, we did know all the data was there from the very beginning. Anyone who spoke out and cited that data from the beginning,
00:18:11:15 - 00:18:16:19
Jennifer Sey
about children being essentially a to, at no risk,
00:18:16:19 - 00:18:21:19
Jennifer Sey
about how something as extreme as lockdowns was never going to work.
00:18:21:21 - 00:18:33:20
Jennifer Sey
It just couldn't it sort of denies our basic humanity that all that data was available from the beginning. But anybody who sort of put it out there from the beginning got smeared and,
00:18:33:20 - 00:18:35:04
Jennifer Sey
retreated,
00:18:35:04 - 00:18:38:07
Jennifer Sey
many people there were early articles in New York Times,
00:18:38:07 - 00:18:43:23
Jennifer Sey
by scientists whose names we don't hear now because they just decided it wasn't worth it.
00:18:43:23 - 00:19:00:01
Jennifer Sey
And then you have people like Doctor Bhattacharya who continued to speak out, journalists like David Zweig. So I don't know. Again, it sort of started like I didn't have a following on social media, but I just was like in my nice lady corporate voice. We sure this makes sense.
00:19:00:01 - 00:19:02:05
Jennifer Sey
I'm not a very combative person.
00:19:02:05 - 00:19:03:09
Jennifer Sey
I would say data.
00:19:03:09 - 00:19:09:00
Jennifer Sey
I would post articles in respectable publications. I thought,
00:19:09:00 - 00:19:27:08
Jennifer Sey
that's not going to get me in trouble. But very quickly I realized this was more contentious than I. Then I realized, and I built a platform sort of slowly over time, because they're just ad moms basically across the country who were screaming out their kids and I really focused on children.
00:19:27:10 - 00:19:29:12
Jennifer Sey
I thought that was a bridge that,
00:19:29:12 - 00:19:39:18
Jennifer Sey
no one wants to harm children. So it was sort of like, I thought a gateway drug to question Covid restrictions. I was wrong.
00:19:39:18 - 00:19:48:15
Jennifer Sey
there was no questioning that was permissible at all in the first three years. And I would say even now, it's,
00:19:48:15 - 00:19:49:13
Jennifer Sey
questionable,
00:19:49:13 - 00:19:52:09
Jennifer Sey
whether it's permitted, we can get to that.
00:19:52:09 - 00:19:54:01
Jennifer Sey
But I just kept going. And,
00:19:54:01 - 00:19:56:15
Jennifer Sey
the minute people started to come after me,
00:19:56:15 - 00:19:59:07
Jennifer Sey
my friends, my family,
00:19:59:07 - 00:20:08:22
Jennifer Sey
my neighbors, people chased me down the street screaming at me that they wouldn't care if my children died. And I deserve it when my children die.
00:20:08:22 - 00:20:20:03
Jennifer Sey
I just it was like the world went insane. And I felt like if I can be this calm voice and speak the truth, the children made it our civil liberties.
00:20:20:03 - 00:20:25:12
Jennifer Sey
She need it. Somebody has to do it.
00:20:25:12 - 00:20:34:18
Jennifer Sey
And the more I was told that I couldn't, the more I like, got mad. Like, I do get mad at a certain point. And,
00:20:34:18 - 00:20:47:12
Jennifer Sey
for me, a real kind of tipping point was in the fall of 2020, all the private schools opened in San Francisco, and my kids went to public school.
00:20:47:14 - 00:20:53:05
Jennifer Sey
I might be the only executive that lived in San Francisco that had children and public school. And,
00:20:53:05 - 00:21:00:12
Jennifer Sey
all the people screaming and singing out their window about staying home to stay safe and calling me,
00:21:00:12 - 00:21:10:11
Jennifer Sey
a Nazi and a bigot and a murderer were sending their kids to in-person private school. So it was the most elitist, disgusting thing.
00:21:10:13 - 00:21:17:14
Jennifer Sey
60% of the children in San Francisco public schools are low income or below the poverty line, like we were harming the most vulnerable.
00:21:17:14 - 00:21:29:08
Jennifer Sey
It. And I just can't, I don't know, I made a choice in a certain point that I was either going to keep standing up for children and possibly alter the course of my life forever, which is what happened.
00:21:29:08 - 00:21:35:21
Jennifer Sey
Or I was going to be a pathetic coward and I decided not to be a coward.
00:21:35:23 - 00:21:37:22
Wilk Wilkinson
Yeah, well, and,
00:21:37:22 - 00:21:41:07
Wilk Wilkinson
it's it's such a tough thing to do.
00:21:41:07 - 00:21:43:11
Wilk Wilkinson
Again, because
00:21:43:11 - 00:21:55:09
Wilk Wilkinson
what you're about to do is going to have a and an immense effect on the future of you, the future of your family,
00:21:56:02 - 00:21:57:09
Wilk Wilkinson
your children,
00:21:57:09 - 00:21:59:04
Wilk Wilkinson
all of those things,
00:21:59:04 - 00:22:08:20
Wilk Wilkinson
to to stand up with that courage is, in my opinion, it is, is.
00:22:08:20 - 00:22:10:15
Wilk Wilkinson
it's a hugely important thing,
00:22:10:15 - 00:22:12:23
Wilk Wilkinson
for society. I mean, again,
00:22:12:23 - 00:22:14:22
Wilk Wilkinson
I keep on using the word courage,
00:22:14:22 - 00:22:15:20
Wilk Wilkinson
because,
00:22:15:20 - 00:22:17:10
Wilk Wilkinson
again, the organization that I work,
00:22:17:10 - 00:22:22:03
Wilk Wilkinson
work with is, yes, is about courageous connections. It's about,
00:22:22:03 - 00:22:26:06
Wilk Wilkinson
standing up and speaking freely and fully and and,
00:22:26:06 - 00:22:30:04
Wilk Wilkinson
not everybody, not everybody can do that.
00:22:30:09 - 00:22:31:16
Wilk Wilkinson
And and I don't even want
00:22:31:16 - 00:22:32:10
Wilk Wilkinson
it.
00:22:32:10 - 00:22:37:22
Wilk Wilkinson
I and I'm not knocking anybody who didn't, but those of us who did,
00:22:37:22 - 00:22:53:12
Wilk Wilkinson
I think, I think it needs and this is not, not looking for pats on the back, but the reality is, is for society to change, for society to course correct when things have gone sideways or when things are clearly,
00:22:53:12 - 00:22:55:03
Wilk Wilkinson
out of bounds from what makes sense.
00:22:55:07 - 00:22:59:21
Wilk Wilkinson
There has to be people that stand up with courage and speak.
00:22:59:21 - 00:23:00:11
Wilk Wilkinson
our friends
00:23:00:11 - 00:23:01:18
Wilk Wilkinson
Jay Bhattacharya,
00:23:01:18 - 00:23:03:05
Wilk Wilkinson
David Zweig,
00:23:03:05 - 00:23:04:12
Wilk Wilkinson
John Ioannidis
00:23:04:12 - 00:23:10:18
Wilk Wilkinson
these, these different people who spoke up when it wasn't popular to speak up.
00:23:10:18 - 00
Comments & Upvotes