Send Wilk a text with your feedback!
Speaking Out With Courage When It Matters Most
Jennifer Sey’s journey is nothing short of extraordinary. From becoming the 1986 U.S. Women’s All-Around National Gymnastics Champion to climbing the corporate ladder as Levi’s Brand President, her path has been marked by both triumph and turbulence. What makes her story remarkable is her willingness to speak truth when silence would have been safer.
In her memoir Chalked Up and later as producer of Netflix’s Athlete A, Sey pulled back the curtain on the abusive culture inside elite gymnastics. She transformed her personal pain into advocacy that gave countless gymnasts the courage to acknowledge their own experiences.
At Levi Strauss & Co., Jen was one of the most powerful voices in fashion and marketing. But when COVID lockdowns closed schools — in some places for more than a year — she spoke out. While many stayed silent for fear of losing careers, Jen refused. Her outspokenness cost her a 23-year career, a community of colleagues, and even friendships, but she refused to sacrifice the truth. Her book Levi’s Unbuttoned tells this story of standing up for children against a tide of fear and conformity.
Today, Jen is focused on two bold ventures:
Generation Covid (film): a raw documentary capturing the unseen struggles of kids and families impacted by prolonged school closures.
XX-XY Athletics (brand): a new clothing line committed to fairness in women’s sports and the protection of female athletes.
âś… Courage is not the absence of fear, but moving forward despite it
✅ Speaking the truth can cost you friends, jobs, and status — but it may save others.
âś… Lockdowns and school closures harmed the most vulnerable children while elites escaped the consequences.
âś… Gratitude and resilience are essential to avoid being consumed by anger.
âś… Every one of us has a role to play in defending truth, fairness, and the future of our children.
The world is a better place if we are better people. That begins with each of us as individuals. Be kind to one another. Be grateful for all you’ve got. Make every day the day that you want it to be!
Please follow The Derate The Hate podcast on:
Facebook, Instagram, Twitter(X) , YouTube
Subscribe to us wherever you enjoy your audio or from our site. Please leave us a rating and feedback on Apple podcasts or other platforms. You can share your thoughts or request Wilk for a speaking engagement on our contact page: DerateTheHate.com/Contact
The Derate The Hate podcast is proudly produced in collaboration with Braver Angels — America’s largest grassroots, cross-partisan organization working toward civic renewal and bridging partisan divides. Learn more: BraverAngels.org
Welcome to the Derate The Hate Podcast!
*The views expressed by Wilk, his guest hosts &/or guests on the Derate The Hate podcast are their own and should not be attributed to any organization they may otherwise be affiliated with.
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:23:22
Wilk Wilkinson
What does it take to speak the truth when fear, ridicule and even your career are on the line? Jennifer Sey has lived that answer, from exposing abuse in elite gymnastics to defying corporate silence to standing up for children during the pandemic. Her story is about courage in the face of consequence, and it's one that you're not going to want to miss.
00:00:23:22 - 00:01:13:07
Wilk Wilkinson
Welcome back, my friends, for the Derate the Hate podcast. I'm your host, Wilk Wilkinson, your blue collar sage calming outrage and helping to navigate a world divided by fog and those who would spread that fear, outrage and grievance. The Derate the Hate podcast is proudly produced in collaboration with Braver Angels, America's largest grassroots cross. partisan organization working towards civic renewal.
00:01:13:09 - 00:01:40:13
Wilk Wilkinson
This podcast amplifies the mission that we share to foster a more respectful and united America where civic friendship thrives even when we disagree. Each week, through the power of story, conversation, and connection with incredible guests, we work to build bridges instead of barriers, not to change minds on the issues, but to change how we see one another when we differ.
00:01:40:15 - 00:02:04:22
Wilk Wilkinson
Because friends, it really is about bettering the world one attitude at a time. We did not create the hate, but together we can Derate the Hate. So be sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcast. Share it with a friend and visit Braver angels.org to learn how you can get involved in the movement to bridge the partisan divide.
00:02:05:00 - 00:02:13:18
Wilk Wilkinson
Friends, I am so incredibly grateful that you have joined me for another powerful Derate the Hate episode. So let's get to it.
00:02:14:11 - 00:02:44:02
Speaker 1
Today's guest is someone whose life story reads like a masterclass in courage. Jennifer Sey is a seven time U.S. national team gymnast and the 1986 all around national champion, who became one of the first athletes to speak out against the culture of abuse in her sport. Her memoir, Chalked Up and the Emmy winning Netflix documentary athlete A, gave voice to countless gymnasts who had been silenced for decades.
00:02:44:19 - 00:02:56:21
Speaker 1
But Jen's courage did not stop there. After rising to the top of Levi Strauss and Company as brand president, she made national headlines by standing against school closures during Covid,
00:02:56:21 - 00:03:15:07
Speaker 1
sacrificing a 23 year career rather than her principles. She tells that story in her book Levi's Unbuttoned. Today, she's the founder and CEO of XX-XY Athletics, the only athletic brand openly defending fairness and women's sports.
00:03:15:09 - 00:03:33:12
Speaker 1
And she's producing the upcoming documentary Generation Covid. Jennifer Sey’s journey is one of candor, resilience and relentless commitment to the truth, no matter the cost. Let's get into it with my friend Jennifer. Say. Here we go.
00:03:33:12 - 00:03:39:18
Wilk Wilkinson
Jennifer Sey thank you for joining me on the Derate the Hate podcast. I am so grateful to see you today.
00:03:39:20 - 00:03:41:16
Jennifer Sey
So happy to be here.
00:03:41:18 - 00:03:43:02
Wilk Wilkinson
It's wonderful. I,
00:03:43:02 - 00:03:45:14
Wilk Wilkinson
I've been following your work for a little while, Jen. And
00:03:45:14 - 00:03:48:21
Wilk Wilkinson
the story or stories,
00:03:48:21 - 00:03:53:01
Wilk Wilkinson
that you have and have to tell are so powerful.
00:03:53:01 - 00:03:54:05
Wilk Wilkinson
One of the things,
00:03:54:05 - 00:04:05:03
Wilk Wilkinson
people know about me, the work that I do at Braver Angels. But one of the core tenets of that Braver Angels is, is encouraging people to speak up freely, fully, without fear.
00:04:05:05 - 00:04:14:21
Wilk Wilkinson
That's not always possible in in our everyday lives. And a lot of people in, in the past, several years have experienced,
00:04:14:21 - 00:04:22:21
Wilk Wilkinson
some, some ugliness as a result of trying to speak up freely, fully and without fear. And and I never want to,
00:04:22:21 - 00:04:26:03
Wilk Wilkinson
tell people to get themselves in trouble at work because,
00:04:26:03 - 00:04:26:16
Wilk Wilkinson
Right.
00:04:26:16 - 00:04:28:10
Wilk Wilkinson
that's that's how they support themselves.
00:04:28:10 - 00:04:28:14
Wilk Wilkinson
But,
00:04:28:14 - 00:04:53:22
Wilk Wilkinson
somebody who for, for decades now has spoken freely, fully without fear, and dealt with some ugly consequences for that. But I want to I want to start a conversation today, Jen, with with your days as a gymnast and. Yeah, and some of the things then that needed to be said but weren't being said.
00:04:54:00 - 00:05:00:06
Jennifer Sey
Yeah, I, I want to add one thing to what you just said, which is I don't know that anyone ever does it without fear.
00:05:00:06 - 00:05:10:19
Jennifer Sey
The question is, how do you kind of go forward with fear? And that's really, to my mind, what courage is like. You don't have to eliminate the fear. That's human. But how do you kind of push forward and overcome it?
00:05:10:19 - 00:05:12:17
Jennifer Sey
Because I'm always terrified to say,
00:05:12:17 - 00:05:26:09
Jennifer Sey
I was a gymnast as a young person in the 1980s, a very successful gymnast. I was like an eight time national team member, and I was a national champion in 1986. Some argue the worst national champion ever. Really push back on that.
00:05:26:09 - 00:05:28:21
Jennifer Sey
But that was still what I was.
00:05:28:23 - 00:05:31:23
Jennifer Sey
It was a really abusive training environment.
00:05:31:23 - 00:05:42:21
Jennifer Sey
Emotionally, physically. And as everybody knows, at this point, there was rampant sexual abuse as well that was exposed with that. Larry sir, who was the trainer for, doctor for team USA.
00:05:42:21 - 00:05:47:17
Jennifer Sey
He started around the year that I finished, so I evaded him.
00:05:47:17 - 00:05:48:23
Jennifer Sey
But it was the culture.
00:05:48:23 - 00:05:51:03
Jennifer Sey
I think it's still the culture. I'll be frank.
00:05:51:03 - 00:05:59:01
Jennifer Sey
It's hard to undo these things. It's hard to change a culture that's been entrenched for 50 years. But I do think,
00:05:59:01 - 00:06:11:11
Jennifer Sey
because of how it's been exposed, it's it's changing. It's slow. And so I grew up in an environment where young athletes were to be seen and not heard.
00:06:11:13 - 00:06:13:21
Jennifer Sey
Obedience was literally,
00:06:13:21 - 00:06:15:09
Jennifer Sey
almost beaten. And it was,
00:06:15:09 - 00:06:23:07
Jennifer Sey
certainly drilled into us. The kids that spoke up in their own defense, the kids that said, no, I'm not going to do that like you did last on the team long.
00:06:23:07 - 00:06:30:22
Jennifer Sey
If you made the national team, you would not find yourself in the rotation. I mean, we were taught from a very young age to just keep our mouths shut.
00:06:30:22 - 00:06:39:00
Jennifer Sey
So I don't come by this naturally. I'll just say that I had to fight for my own voice in many ways.
00:06:39:00 - 00:06:49:18
Jennifer Sey
But 20 years after I left the sport, I was. Despite being a successful person. Yeah, I was grown up. I had two kids at the time. I was an avid two at the time. I was a vice president already.
00:06:49:20 - 00:07:10:21
Jennifer Sey
In the corporate world, I had a successful career, but I really suffered and struggled with low self-esteem and anxiety and depression, and I just I felt bad about myself all the time. But I guess not debilitating ways, but in ways that were definitely not allowing me to kind of optimize my happiness,
00:07:10:21 - 00:07:17:16
Jennifer Sey
I’m not a big ruminator or and I wasn't in tons of therapy and I wasn't medicated, but I wanted to feel better.
00:07:17:16 - 00:07:25:04
Jennifer Sey
it did make up my I was very rational about it. Right. Like my like it didn't make sense that I felt this way when I had a successful career. Two kids,
00:07:25:04 - 00:07:27:13
Jennifer Sey
like, everything should have been good.
00:07:27:13 - 00:07:32:20
Jennifer Sey
But I was so unbelievably hard on myself, and I always felt like a failure. And so I wrote the book.
00:07:32:20 - 00:07:56:01
Jennifer Sey
I sort of sat down to think about these things and I sat down in a room by myself and wrote my first book called Chalked Up, which came out in 2008. And it is really much, very much about the abuse in the sport. I did it as like my own exercise to understand what happened, and it allowed me to understand that this culture that I grew up in, it was not tough coaching, it was abuse.
00:07:56:01 - 00:08:02:05
Jennifer Sey
And that's why I felt the way that I did. And it was like for me, understanding it allowed me to get past it.
00:08:02:07 - 00:08:03:03
Wilk Wilkinson
Okay.
00:08:03:05 - 00:08:21:15
Jennifer Sey
But I put myself in this situation like I didn't go out there screaming about it. I wrote a book by myself in my room. I didn't think all that much about what the reception would be. I did sort of tell myself in my mind, be as honest as you can about yourself when that's reflects poorly on you, when there's ugly parts about yourself and
00:08:21:15 - 00:08:24:03
Jennifer Sey
the ugliest things that you maybe feel ashamed of.
00:08:24:05 - 00:08:32:09
Jennifer Sey
These are the things. If this book ever sees the light of day, that will help other people, so you should be as honest as you can. So that's what I did.
00:08:32:11 - 00:08:35:21
Wilk Wilkinson
That is amazing. And I mean, it takes incredible courage.
00:08:35:21 - 00:08:40:09
Wilk Wilkinson
And that's, that's one of the things that I want to ask about because,
00:08:40:09 - 00:08:58:12
Wilk Wilkinson
knowing what you knew about the sport and knowing what you knew about that culture and knowing that, that there were so many people that that experienced what you experienced but never did speak up or,
00:08:58:12 - 00:09:00:11
Wilk Wilkinson
whether it be for lack of courage
00:09:00:11 - 00:09:07:22
Wilk Wilkinson
or that they, that they just didn't want to be labeled as that person or whatever,
00:09:07:22 - 00:09:10:01
Wilk Wilkinson
whatever it was.
00:09:10:03 - 00:09:13:12
Wilk Wilkinson
But what do you think it was inside you, Jennifer, that
00:09:13:12 - 00:09:32:09
Wilk Wilkinson
That said, hey, I've, I've actually I mean, you talked about the not being happy part, but what was it that that gave you that spark, that spark of courage that said, no, this story has to be told.
00:09:32:11 - 00:09:47:11
Jennifer Sey
I think a lot of people don't speak up in the sport because they almost suffer from what I would describe as Stockholm syndrome. They don't see it. They're still sort of held captive to it. They still want to please the coaches and the culture. They don't even see it,
00:09:47:11 - 00:09:59:19
Jennifer Sey
which I find just terribly sad. And one of the things I'm most proud of is because of this book and because of a film I made later, Athlete A, and allowed some many gymnasts to see that what they experienced was abuse.
00:09:59:23 - 00:10:03:21
Jennifer Sey
Because we're told it's tough coaching and you're weak if you suffer.
00:10:03:21 - 00:10:25:00
Jennifer Sey
And then we believe that and carry that into our adulthood. I guess I knew somewhere in my heart of hearts that I wasn't weak, that I was strong, and that I didn't deserve to feel this way, and that I should not be going through my day with this amount of anxiety and sadness and self-loathing, there was no reason for it.
00:10:25:00 - 00:10:51:13
Jennifer Sey
I knew in my heart that I was smart and a good person, and I treat others with kindness, and I shouldn't think everything's my fault. It shouldn't always feel like I'm failing as a mom and a wife and an executive. And like, it just didn't make sense. Like it just defied any sort of basic common sense and I just sort of knew that somewhere in my in myself,
00:10:51:13 - 00:11:14:13
Jennifer Sey
Yeah. And I knew if I could dive into it, I could make it maybe make more sense. And I really started to understand that the tactics deployed by my coaches, by USA gymnastics, they're just they're cult like and they're abusive. Yeah. If you tell a child, a 13 year old child who weighs,
00:11:14:13 - 00:11:20:01
Jennifer Sey
80 pounds, that you have to lose 3 pounds by tomorrow by any means necessary.
00:11:20:01 - 00:11:49:10
Jennifer Sey
I don't care how you do it. I don't coach fat gymnasts. And you say that on the loudspeaker and again so everybody can hear it. That's not tough coaching. That is child abuse. If you force a child to train on broken bones, that's child abuse. If you have the doctor come in and shoot a child, a minor child up with corticosteroids every few weeks so they can keep training on those broken bones that child abuse.
00:11:49:12 - 00:11:53:14
Jennifer Sey
And so I don't know, I guess,
00:11:53:14 - 00:11:54:06
Jennifer Sey
they say when,
00:11:54:06 - 00:12:10:00
Jennifer Sey
addicts, you have to hit bottom to kind of want it bad enough to climb out. I think I just, I mean, I didn't have like an ugly bottom, but I just didn't want to feel that way anymore. And I was willing to do the work to use their afterwards.
00:12:10:02 - 00:12:10:11
Jennifer Sey
Yeah.
00:12:10:11 - 00:12:27:22
Jennifer Sey
To, to feel better. And I wanted to do it myself. I didn't want to be guided by a therapist. I didn't want medication. I, I knew that there was a thing. I knew that it was wrong and that I had been told that there was nothing wrong with this coaching, and it was me. And I had this sorted.
00:12:28:00 - 00:12:40:03
Jennifer Sey
So I don't know. I don't know what to tell you. People ask that all the time, but I will tell you this. Wilk, that once you start down this path of speaking out, it does get easier over time.
00:12:40:03 - 00:12:48:20
Jennifer Sey
when the book first came out, it was right before the Olympics in 2008. And the pushback was intense from my own teammates, from,
00:12:48:20 - 00:12:52:04
Jennifer Sey
team USA, from USA gymnastics and USA, OPC.
00:12:52:04 - 00:12:54:12
Jennifer Sey
And at first I kind of retract,
00:12:54:12 - 00:12:58:15
Jennifer Sey
I kind of like pulled back a little bit and I was,
00:12:58:15 - 00:13:07:02
Jennifer Sey
it's say, oh, it's not the sport. This is not an indictment of sport. This is just my experience. And then I was like, no, it is the sport. It's
00:13:07:02 - 00:13:09:19
Jennifer Sey
I'm not going. I got braver I,
00:13:09:19 - 00:13:13:05
Jennifer Sey
and I became more assertive and more outspoken.
00:13:13:05 - 00:13:22:10
Jennifer Sey
And I think it really set me up to do, to be as outspoken as I was during, during Covid. And,
00:13:22:10 - 00:13:35:09
Jennifer Sey
the thing that guides me is really just standing up for children, because I guess I look back on my childhood and I think, gosh, there was so much good that came from gymnastics, and it could have all been good.
00:13:35:11 - 00:13:48:11
Jennifer Sey
And yet no adult who should have known better, no parent, no sane coach in the gym, no one spoke out in our defense. Yeah. And so I just would I want to be that adult.
00:13:48:13 - 00:13:49:13
Wilk Wilkinson
Yeah. And
00:13:49:13 - 00:13:52:15
Wilk Wilkinson
people should be, immensely grateful.
00:13:52:15 - 00:13:55:03
Wilk Wilkinson
Jen, that that that people,
00:13:55:03 - 00:13:56:01
Wilk Wilkinson
like, you,
00:13:56:01 - 00:13:59:21
Wilk Wilkinson
were, what, standing up for, for children then
00:13:59:21 - 00:14:05:01
Wilk Wilkinson
and standing up for children now and then, standing up for women now. So like you said,
00:14:05:01 - 00:14:08:11
Wilk Wilkinson
you found a place. You found a voice.
00:14:08:13 - 00:14:23:22
Wilk Wilkinson
You it it does become easier as people start standing up for what they know is right. And and while it is incredibly difficult, it takes incredible courage and it it will continue to take courage. Like you said,
00:14:23:22 - 00:14:27:19
Wilk Wilkinson
at the beginning of this conversation, it's not that there's not fear.
00:14:27:19 - 00:14:31:20
Wilk Wilkinson
you're terrified at times to to stand up and say what you say.
00:14:31:22 - 00:14:34:23
Wilk Wilkinson
But what I found in my work, Jen, is that
00:14:34:23 - 00:14:40:10
Wilk Wilkinson
the real growth doesn't, doesn't come inside our comfort zone.
00:14:40:10 - 00:14:54:08
Wilk Wilkinson
we cannot just pretend that that if we don't step out once in a while and some of us will step out further than others, and that's fine. But, real growth is not going to come inside our comfort zone.
00:14:54:10 - 00:14:57:19
Wilk Wilkinson
We have to have the courage to stand up and speak out and
00:14:57:19 - 00:15:00:10
Wilk Wilkinson
so let's transition a little bit because
00:15:00:10 - 00:15:07:05
Wilk Wilkinson
your time as a gymnast and then speaking out with the book chalked up and then and then athlete a
00:15:07:05 - 00:15:09:03
Wilk Wilkinson
it's become a movie.
00:15:09:03 - 00:15:13:17
Wilk Wilkinson
In 2020 we reached the point of the pandemic and you are
00:15:13:17 - 00:15:18:06
Wilk Wilkinson
you are a successful business executive with with Levi's at that time.
00:15:18:08 - 00:15:29:00
Wilk Wilkinson
And you start it probably that instinct kicked in again, right? Somebody somebody needs to speak up for the children. And,
00:15:29:00 - 00:15:41:23
Wilk Wilkinson
some of us, I think a lot more than than than has ever been known, were speaking up and saying, hey, there's a problem here. We need to think about this. We need to look at this a little bit deeper.
00:15:42:04 - 00:15:50:23
Wilk Wilkinson
We need to get the conversation going. It needs to happen. But back to that thing that I was saying earlier is self-censorship.
00:15:50:23 - 00:15:54:15
Wilk Wilkinson
Was it more than any time in my lifetime?
00:15:54:15 - 00:15:58:16
Wilk Wilkinson
Yeah. That self-censorship thing started kicking in and
00:15:58:16 - 00:16:05:05
Wilk Wilkinson
for good reason, because people were losing their jobs, losing their career because of it. So so talk to me then,
00:16:05:05 - 00:16:06:06
Wilk Wilkinson
Jen, about
00:16:06:06 - 00:16:16:13
Wilk Wilkinson
where you were in your career at Levi's and then what made you say, I've got to start speaking up again?
00:16:16:15 - 00:16:26:14
Jennifer Sey
Yeah. I think one important point I would just mention is by about 2018, I was completely redeemed in the gymnastics and sport community.
00:16:26:14 - 00:16:42:14
Jennifer Sey
And then Athlete Aid came out in 2020. And, I mean, it was like I had gone from being persona non grata this like horrible week, ridiculous person who was smearing coaches and gymnasts back in 2008 to a hero who saw it and spoke out.
00:16:42:14 - 00:16:48:06
Jennifer Sey
So maybe I was riding a little high. I don't know, maybe I had a little bit of overconfidence.
00:16:48:06 - 00:17:00:22
Jennifer Sey
That that is. I'm joking, of course, but I did sort of come to see that. If you say the thing and you say the truth thing, the truth does out in the end, it might take a decade, it might take a really long time.
00:17:01:00 - 00:17:13:11
Jennifer Sey
But after ten years, 12 years of speaking out about this abuse, it came out that I had told the truth all along. So I just I believed truth out in the end. And I think that,
00:17:13:11 - 00:17:20:21
Jennifer Sey
I have some sort of like a, like, I cannot say a lie, I just won't do it. And,
00:17:20:21 - 00:17:23:10
Jennifer Sey
it just seemed so clear to me at the start of Covid.
00:17:23:10 - 00:17:29:10
Jennifer Sey
And keep in mind, I lived in San Francisco, so it was about as bad as it could be in San Francisco. The lockdowns,
00:17:29:10 - 00:17:32:09
Jennifer Sey
schools were closed there for close to 19 months.
00:17:32:09 - 00:17:39:23
Jennifer Sey
Kids had disrupted schooling for another year and a half after that, we waited. Wilk, every day we were like on pins and needles, like, can we go to dark orange?
00:17:39:23 - 00:17:44:04
Jennifer Sey
So we're allowed to go to the park like it was this insane system. And,
00:17:44:04 - 00:17:56:03
Jennifer Sey
I just from the very beginning, my husband and I and I have to say that was incredibly helpful. I know couples that were not in agreement on this, but he and I were in lockstep from day one, so I always had him. I could turn to,
00:17:56:03 - 00:17:58:01
Jennifer Sey
to say, I'm not crazy, right?
00:17:58:01 - 00:18:11:15
Jennifer Sey
I'm not crazy, right. And all the facts for anyone who filed along every day say we didn't know in the beginning, we did know all the data was there from the very beginning. Anyone who spoke out and cited that data from the beginning,
00:18:11:15 - 00:18:16:19
Jennifer Sey
about children being essentially a to, at no risk,
00:18:16:19 - 00:18:21:19
Jennifer Sey
about how something as extreme as lockdowns was never going to work.
00:18:21:21 - 00:18:33:20
Jennifer Sey
It just couldn't it sort of denies our basic humanity that all that data was available from the beginning. But anybody who sort of put it out there from the beginning got smeared and,
00:18:33:20 - 00:18:35:04
Jennifer Sey
retreated,
00:18:35:04 - 00:18:38:07
Jennifer Sey
many people there were early articles in New York Times,
00:18:38:07 - 00:18:43:23
Jennifer Sey
by scientists whose names we don't hear now because they just decided it wasn't worth it.
00:18:43:23 - 00:19:00:01
Jennifer Sey
And then you have people like Doctor Bhattacharya who continued to speak out, journalists like David Zweig. So I don't know. Again, it sort of started like I didn't have a following on social media, but I just was like in my nice lady corporate voice. We sure this makes sense.
00:19:00:01 - 00:19:02:05
Jennifer Sey
I'm not a very combative person.
00:19:02:05 - 00:19:03:09
Jennifer Sey
I would say data.
00:19:03:09 - 00:19:09:00
Jennifer Sey
I would post articles in respectable publications. I thought,
00:19:09:00 - 00:19:27:08
Jennifer Sey
that's not going to get me in trouble. But very quickly I realized this was more contentious than I. Then I realized, and I built a platform sort of slowly over time, because they're just ad moms basically across the country who were screaming out their kids and I really focused on children.
00:19:27:10 - 00:19:29:12
Jennifer Sey
I thought that was a bridge that,
00:19:29:12 - 00:19:39:18
Jennifer Sey
no one wants to harm children. So it was sort of like, I thought a gateway drug to question Covid restrictions. I was wrong.
00:19:39:18 - 00:19:48:15
Jennifer Sey
there was no questioning that was permissible at all in the first three years. And I would say even now, it's,
00:19:48:15 - 00:19:49:13
Jennifer Sey
questionable,
00:19:49:13 - 00:19:52:09
Jennifer Sey
whether it's permitted, we can get to that.
00:19:52:09 - 00:19:54:01
Jennifer Sey
But I just kept going. And,
00:19:54:01 - 00:19:56:15
Jennifer Sey
the minute people started to come after me,
00:19:56:15 - 00:19:59:07
Jennifer Sey
my friends, my family,
00:19:59:07 - 00:20:08:22
Jennifer Sey
my neighbors, people chased me down the street screaming at me that they wouldn't care if my children died. And I deserve it when my children die.
00:20:08:22 - 00:20:20:03
Jennifer Sey
I just it was like the world went insane. And I felt like if I can be this calm voice and speak the truth, the children made it our civil liberties.
00:20:20:03 - 00:20:25:12
Jennifer Sey
She need it. Somebody has to do it.
00:20:25:12 - 00:20:34:18
Jennifer Sey
And the more I was told that I couldn't, the more I like, got mad. Like, I do get mad at a certain point. And,
00:20:34:18 - 00:20:47:12
Jennifer Sey
for me, a real kind of tipping point was in the fall of 2020, all the private schools opened in San Francisco, and my kids went to public school.
00:20:47:14 - 00:20:53:05
Jennifer Sey
I might be the only executive that lived in San Francisco that had children and public school. And,
00:20:53:05 - 00:21:00:12
Jennifer Sey
all the people screaming and singing out their window about staying home to stay safe and calling me,
00:21:00:12 - 00:21:10:11
Jennifer Sey
a Nazi and a bigot and a murderer were sending their kids to in-person private school. So it was the most elitist, disgusting thing.
00:21:10:13 - 00:21:17:14
Jennifer Sey
60% of the children in San Francisco public schools are low income or below the poverty line, like we were harming the most vulnerable.
00:21:17:14 - 00:21:29:08
Jennifer Sey
It. And I just can't, I don't know, I made a choice in a certain point that I was either going to keep standing up for children and possibly alter the course of my life forever, which is what happened.
00:21:29:08 - 00:21:35:21
Jennifer Sey
Or I was going to be a pathetic coward and I decided not to be a coward.
00:21:35:23 - 00:21:37:22
Wilk Wilkinson
Yeah, well, and,
00:21:37:22 - 00:21:41:07
Wilk Wilkinson
it's it's such a tough thing to do.
00:21:41:07 - 00:21:43:11
Wilk Wilkinson
Again, because
00:21:43:11 - 00:21:55:09
Wilk Wilkinson
what you're about to do is going to have a and an immense effect on the future of you, the future of your family,
00:21:56:02 - 00:21:57:09
Wilk Wilkinson
your children,
00:21:57:09 - 00:21:59:04
Wilk Wilkinson
all of those things,
00:21:59:04 - 00:22:08:20
Wilk Wilkinson
to to stand up with that courage is, in my opinion, it is, is.
00:22:08:20 - 00:22:10:15
Wilk Wilkinson
it's a hugely important thing,
00:22:10:15 - 00:22:12:23
Wilk Wilkinson
for society. I mean, again,
00:22:12:23 - 00:22:14:22
Wilk Wilkinson
I keep on using the word courage,
00:22:14:22 - 00:22:15:20
Wilk Wilkinson
because,
00:22:15:20 - 00:22:17:10
Wilk Wilkinson
again, the organization that I work,
00:22:17:10 - 00:22:22:03
Wilk Wilkinson
work with is, yes, is about courageous connections. It's about,
00:22:22:03 - 00:22:26:06
Wilk Wilkinson
standing up and speaking freely and fully and and,
00:22:26:06 - 00:22:30:04
Wilk Wilkinson
not everybody, not everybody can do that.
00:22:30:09 - 00:22:31:16
Wilk Wilkinson
And and I don't even want
00:22:31:16 - 00:22:32:10
Wilk Wilkinson
it.
00:22:32:10 - 00:22:37:22
Wilk Wilkinson
I and I'm not knocking anybody who didn't, but those of us who did,
00:22:37:22 - 00:22:53:12
Wilk Wilkinson
I think, I think it needs and this is not, not looking for pats on the back, but the reality is, is for society to change, for society to course correct when things have gone sideways or when things are clearly,
00:22:53:12 - 00:22:55:03
Wilk Wilkinson
out of bounds from what makes sense.
00:22:55:07 - 00:22:59:21
Wilk Wilkinson
There has to be people that stand up with courage and speak.
00:22:59:21 - 00:23:00:11
Wilk Wilkinson
our friends
00:23:00:11 - 00:23:01:18
Wilk Wilkinson
Jay Bhattacharya,
00:23:01:18 - 00:23:03:05
Wilk Wilkinson
David Zweig,
00:23:03:05 - 00:23:04:12
Wilk Wilkinson
John Ioannidis
00:23:04:12 - 00:23:10:18
Wilk Wilkinson
these, these different people who spoke up when it wasn't popular to speak up.
00:23:10:18 - 00:23:17:17
Wilk Wilkinson
It takes immense courage to do that. And, and I'm just glad that there were enough people that have.
00:23:17:17 - 00:23:18:05
Wilk Wilkinson
And
00:23:18:05 - 00:23:20:05
Wilk Wilkinson
like you said, Jen, it may not
00:23:20:05 - 00:23:23:15
Wilk Wilkinson
the tides may not turn in a day, a month, a year. But,
00:23:23:15 - 00:23:24:22
Wilk Wilkinson
hopefully at some point,
00:23:24:22 - 00:23:26:11
Wilk Wilkinson
after a decade and,
00:23:26:11 - 00:23:28:17
Wilk Wilkinson
I think we're starting to,
00:23:28:17 - 00:23:32:00
Wilk Wilkinson
turn the page on the, on the Covid story,
00:23:32:00 - 00:23:38:05
Wilk Wilkinson
and thankfully I've, I've been able to have some of the, these conversations with people,
00:23:38:05 - 00:23:42:07
Wilk Wilkinson
some of the world's greatest minds on these things
00:23:42:07 - 00:23:43:21
Wilk Wilkinson
especially the,
00:23:43:21 - 00:23:48:18
Wilk Wilkinson
the non-pharmaceutical interventions, that were used during Covid,
00:23:48:18 - 00:23:51:19
Wilk Wilkinson
the school lockdowns, the school masking,
00:23:51:19 - 00:23:52:18
Wilk Wilkinson
things like that.
00:23:52:20 - 00:23:53:16
Wilk Wilkinson
Talk to me
00:23:53:16 - 00:24:09:13
Wilk Wilkinson
then about, okay, so your children were in public school in San Francisco and let's let's get into that just a little bit more. 19 months, they're held out of school, but I think a lot of people lose sight of the fact, again, that you mentioned the statistic there,
00:24:09:13 - 00:24:16:17
Wilk Wilkinson
that, that that people lose sight of that a lot of these kids and this, this.
00:24:16:20 - 00:24:24:03
Wilk Wilkinson
And the reason I bring this up, Jen, is because your movie Generation Covid, Generation COVID is a movie that,
00:24:24:03 - 00:24:27:04
Wilk Wilkinson
that will be coming out soon, right? About,
00:24:27:04 - 00:24:34:06
Wilk Wilkinson
this young generation of school kids that, that missed so much or were so greatly affected.
00:24:34:06 - 00:24:34:23
Wilk Wilkinson
Not not good.
00:24:34:23 - 00:24:37:07
Wilk Wilkinson
Not good. Affected. But no.
00:24:37:09 - 00:24:39:02
Jennifer Sey
Right. Impacted. So. Yeah.
00:24:39:02 - 00:24:39:13
Jennifer Sey
Right. Yeah.
00:24:39:17 - 00:24:41:22
Wilk Wilkinson
Hugely affected. Let's just say,
00:24:41:22 - 00:24:48:17
Wilk Wilkinson
by the school closures and things like that. So talk to me then,
00:24:48:17 - 00:24:52:12
Wilk Wilkinson
about the, the disparate impact that, that had.
00:24:52:17 - 00:24:53:04
Jennifer Sey
Yeah.
00:24:53:04 - 00:24:59:02
Wilk Wilkinson
Especially on those that couldn't afford to send their kids to, to public or private.
00:24:59:04 - 00:25:01:09
Jennifer Sey
Private. Yeah.
00:25:01:09 - 00:25:04:19
Jennifer Sey
I, I ended up leaving,
00:25:04:19 - 00:25:11:16
Jennifer Sey
in the spring, in about February of 21 so my kids could go to school. So we didn't go the full 19 months. But,
00:25:11:16 - 00:25:20:07
Jennifer Sey
I had kids. It I have my age. Spread of my children is wide. I have four. So I had one in college at public university in California.
00:25:20:07 - 00:25:36:06
Jennifer Sey
He was at Berkeley, I had one in high school, and I had one starting kindergarten. And then I have one in preschool. A lot of spread. So I was seeing the impact at all ages. Now, I fully acknowledge I've never met anyone who isn't like clear on this. They're not like,
00:25:36:06 - 00:25:39:11
Jennifer Sey
I just I was an executive for many years at Levi's.
00:25:39:11 - 00:25:43:05
Jennifer Sey
I could afford to speak out. I realize I I'm very blessed.
00:25:43:05 - 00:25:47:09
Jennifer Sey
Certainly it's made my life much harder since I did,
00:25:47:09 - 00:25:55:22
Jennifer Sey
and put me on a different path. But I also felt like if I can, I have to, because some people can't. I have great empathy.
00:25:55:22 - 00:26:01:12
Jennifer Sey
some people cannot speak out because they cannot go a day without,
00:26:01:12 - 00:26:02:15
Jennifer Sey
without their salary.
00:26:02:15 - 00:26:14:03
Jennifer Sey
And I am lucky enough that I am able to do that. But like I said, over the course of my outspokenness, I did not anticipate that being the end, my being ousted from corporate America entirely and having the torch. I,
00:26:14:03 - 00:26:18:07
Jennifer Sey
if I'd known for the beginning at. Yeah, I probably would have still done it, but I didn't.
00:26:18:11 - 00:26:30:15
Jennifer Sey
I just I start down this path and then I get the pushback, and then I get angry and I say, you can. And in my mind I go, you can't tell me what I can and cannot say, and I'm speaking the truth and I'm doing it with kindness.
00:26:30:15 - 00:26:35:12
Jennifer Sey
I'm not a name caller. I'm doing this with facts and kindness, and I will not stop.
00:26:35:14 - 00:26:36:12
Jennifer Sey
But I had,
00:26:36:12 - 00:26:39:21
Jennifer Sey
I had had children in San Francisco unified for many years.
00:26:39:22 - 00:26:48:08
Jennifer Sey
I knew that student population. I don't think it takes a genius to understand that the student population is,
00:26:48:08 - 00:26:53:00
Jennifer Sey
more vulnerable than the student population. And the $60,000 a year,
00:26:53:00 - 00:26:57:09
Jennifer Sey
private schools. It takes one Google search to know that 60% are living at or below the.
00:26:57:11 - 00:26:58:15
Jennifer Sey
It's not hard.
00:26:58:15 - 00:27:02:01
Jennifer Sey
It's not hard to understand that for people that are,
00:27:02:01 - 00:27:14:12
Jennifer Sey
hourly wage essential workers, they're leaving children home alone, perhaps very young children with no oversight or guidance. I mean, the hypocrisy was like rampant. It just drove me crazy. They had these,
00:27:14:12 - 00:27:20:01
Jennifer Sey
study centers that they sent set up in San Francisco for homeless children, poor children whose families were,
00:27:20:01 - 00:27:23:13
Jennifer Sey
whose parents may have been out working.
00:27:23:15 - 00:27:51:12
Jennifer Sey
So they put an hourly wage worker in there. That was fine for that person to be in there, but teachers couldn't be in a classroom. I mean, it's just like none of it made any frickin sense at all. Boggles the mind. It boggles the mind. It didn't take a genius. I'm not that smart to understand that if you isolate teenage children right, when they're supposed to be out in the world individuated from their parents, like, right at that critical moment that they were going to suffer,
00:27:51:12 - 00:27:56:03
Jennifer Sey
and that they were going to have developmental issues, depression, anxiety, all of these things.
00:27:56:03 - 00:28:06:11
Jennifer Sey
It's exactly what happened. Like I said, I'm not that smart. I just like thought about people as human beings, not as cogs in some model. If you just thought about it a little bit. So,
00:28:06:11 - 00:28:10:17
Jennifer Sey
the most vulnerable children were certainly harm the most. It was all upside down.
00:28:10:17 - 00:28:15:23
Jennifer Sey
all of this was said to protect the vulnerable, but we harmed the vulnerable the most in the laptop classes.
00:28:15:23 - 00:28:17:05
Jennifer Sey
Doctor J calls them,
00:28:17:05 - 00:28:24:21
Jennifer Sey
we're the ones that could skate through and sit in judgment of everyone else who was was pushing back. I just,
00:28:24:21 - 00:28:25:03
Jennifer Sey
I,
00:28:25:03 - 00:28:37:10
Jennifer Sey
I, I, I cannot fathom a more egregious violation of our civil liberties than what we went through during that time through decree, not legislation. We were told we could not leave our homes.
00:28:37:15 - 00:28:47:01
Jennifer Sey
We could not visit loved ones in the hospital, couldn't send our children to school, run our businesses, go to AA meetings if we need them, go to church if that's what we do. Like,
00:28:47:01 - 00:28:55:02
Jennifer Sey
I, I will never for the life of me understand how this did. How the whole country didn't say now,
00:28:55:02 - 00:28:59:13
Jennifer Sey
but fear. It's the fear, the fear mongering, the constant drumbeat of fear.
00:28:59:13 - 00:29:01:11
Jennifer Sey
The death ticker on CNN.
00:29:01:11 - 00:29:27:22
Jennifer Sey
That drove people insane. But my reason I will not stop talking about this until there is some sort of reckoning is it will happen again. And people will fall prey to the same fear again. And Gavin Newsom will do his same decrees all over again. If it gets him more, more power and we will harm the youngest and the most vulnerable again, because that's always who gets times the amount of.
00:29:27:22 - 00:29:29:07
Wilk Wilkinson
So yeah.
00:29:29:08 - 00:29:37:04
Jennifer Sey
I mean, that was a long answer, but I just I guess I just knew and I couldn't stop thinking about the kids. I couldn't stop thinking about them.
00:29:37:05 - 00:29:39:17
Wilk Wilkinson
And, and and I appreciate you,
00:29:39:17 - 00:29:40:19
Wilk Wilkinson
saying that because,
00:29:40:19 - 00:29:43:17
Wilk Wilkinson
yeah, I unfortunately just,
00:29:43:17 - 00:29:48:02
Wilk Wilkinson
like I said, for whatever reason, and I don't want to ascribe motives to anybody,
00:29:48:02 - 00:29:58:13
Wilk Wilkinson
but but for whatever reason, they just weren't enough people speaking out. I want to step back real quick again to to something that you had said. And and it's something I meant to ask,
00:29:58:13 - 00:30:03:22
Wilk Wilkinson
earlier in the conversation, but but the the the the book,
00:30:03:22 - 00:30:05:13
Wilk Wilkinson
Levi's unbuttoned,
00:30:05:13 - 00:30:06:20
Wilk Wilkinson
they took my job, but,
00:30:06:20 - 00:30:09:15
Wilk Wilkinson
they took my job, but gave me my voice.
00:30:09:17 - 00:30:23:22
Wilk Wilkinson
Talk to me about that. And what what that was like at Levi's. Because you'd been there for a couple decades, right? And. And what what the what the personal impact.
00:30:23:22 - 00:30:25:23
Wilk Wilkinson
I mean, I know what the mission was. I know what
00:30:25:23 - 00:30:28:15
Wilk Wilkinson
your heart was telling you to do as far as the kids.
00:30:28:17 - 00:30:38:21
Wilk Wilkinson
But talk to me a little bit about what that felt like for you after having been there so long and then, and then,
00:30:38:21 - 00:30:45:14
Wilk Wilkinson
ostensibly being, being pushed out of, of that spot. Oh.
00:30:45:15 - 00:31:05:06
Jennifer Sey
Yeah. I worked there 23 years. This is a brand I wore since I was six years old. I still wear it all the time. When I got to work there, I think I was 29 when I started. It was such an honor. I took a step back to start there because I just loved the brand so much. I worked my way up from entry level marketing assistant.
00:31:05:06 - 00:31:10:13
Jennifer Sey
I was, the chief marketing officer for eight years. And the brand president, I mean, there was a lot of stuff in between.
00:31:10:13 - 00:31:16:19
Jennifer Sey
And he loved the place, and I felt like I made a real difference there. And I don't think anybody would argue with that point,
00:31:16:19 - 00:31:18:16
Jennifer Sey
that I worked with at the time
00:31:18:16 - 00:31:20:12
Jennifer Sey
over many, many years.
00:31:20:14 - 00:31:25:22
Jennifer Sey
I think the the hardest thing this was my this was my community.
00:31:25:22 - 00:31:27:22
Jennifer Sey
you work in a place for 23 years.
00:31:27:22 - 00:31:45:10
Jennifer Sey
Those are your friends. Some like family. I had been to funerals and weddings and baby showers, and certainly I had a community beyond Levi's in San Francisco more broadly, and my college friends and. So I'll sort of extrapolate beyond Levi's.
00:31:45:10 - 00:31:55:12
Jennifer Sey
But that was like where my life was centered at the time. There was not a single person that said.
00:31:55:14 - 00:31:57:14
Jennifer Sey
Jen's. Jen's okay.
00:31:57:14 - 00:32:17:07
Jennifer Sey
Jen, Jen is not a rabble rouser. Maybe we should listen. Or maybe we should support her right to say this thing. Or it was just across the board. I mean, of all of my friends that I had a lot of friends from college, hundreds, one is left. One that still talks to me.
00:32:17:07 - 00:32:18:16
Jennifer Sey
So that's the thing.
00:32:18:16 - 00:32:18:22
Jennifer Sey
And,
00:32:18:22 - 00:32:33:08
Jennifer Sey
it's it's from my friends and colleagues at Levi's, but also in San Francisco. And then my sort of college cohort. It's like these people that know what's in your heart. They know your intellect. They know that you don't just, like, say dumb stuff,
00:32:33:08 - 00:32:36:23
Jennifer Sey
go down weird rabbit holes. You're not a conspiracy theories.
00:32:36:23 - 00:32:38:02
Jennifer Sey
You're a thoughtful person.
00:32:38:02 - 00:33:08:18
Jennifer Sey
You take it very seriously. If you're going to have an opinion and you're going to express it, you are good hearted and you try to do what's best by people. They know all of these things about you, and yet will either stand in silence as you're smeared and vilified or pile on in many cases, pile on that she is a racist and a eugenicist and all of these things like, can they possibly believe this about a person that they've known and worked side by side with or,
00:33:08:18 - 00:33:11:14
Jennifer Sey
known for 30 years and raised children with?
00:33:11:14 - 00:33:28:11
Jennifer Sey
Like, I, I don't understand the mindset. I will always stand up for a person's right to say a thing, even if I vehemently disagree with it. So it was. Yeah. It was really it was heartbreaking. But like I said, I had my husband,
00:33:28:11 - 00:33:32:17
Jennifer Sey
who is my best friend and I knew couples who disagreed on these things.
00:33:32:17 - 00:33:45:11
Jennifer Sey
And I can't imagine how difficult that would have been. But I had him. I mean, I basically just had him for a while because my own family, wasn't great,
00:33:45:11 - 00:33:52:13
Jennifer Sey
we figured it out since, well, my parents and I had figured it out, and my brother and I don't speak. Still, five and a half years later,
00:33:52:13 - 00:33:53:14
Jennifer Sey
it's,
00:33:53:14 - 00:34:02:16
Jennifer Sey
I tell you started out by saying this like, I want people you could lose a lot.
00:34:02:18 - 00:34:13:22
Jennifer Sey
I believe it's worth it. I've done it anyway. It doesn't mean that there aren't some moments where I feel quite heartbroken over all of it. It doesn't mean I don't still hope that these things can be repaired.
00:34:13:22 - 00:34:20:03
Jennifer Sey
But I didn't do anything wrong and I'm not going to feel bad about it. I'm not going to feel guilty about it.
00:34:20:05 - 00:34:25:15
Jennifer Sey
I'm going to move on with my life and keep speaking out in defense of children.
00:34:25:15 - 00:34:40:12
Jennifer Sey
I just, at this point, don't know what else to do. I have a new group of friends. We stand together, and I've got my husband and I can look myself in the mirror and know that I was kind and spoke the truth.
00:34:40:14 - 00:34:41:00
Wilk Wilkinson
Yeah.
00:34:41:00 - 00:34:43:07
Wilk Wilkinson
It's a beautiful thing, Jen, because,
00:34:43:22 - 00:34:54:02
Wilk Wilkinson
one of the things that I always think back on is that phrase that just because everybody's doing a thing doesn't make it right, and just because nobody's doing a thing doesn't make it wrong.
00:34:54:02 - 00:34:59:20
Wilk Wilkinson
We have to be true to ourselves. We have to to to follow the guidance of whatever,
00:34:59:20 - 00:35:09:01
Wilk Wilkinson
higher power that that we believe in and and do what we believe is right, even when that takes immense courage to do it.
00:35:09:03 - 00:35:09:19
Wilk Wilkinson
again.
00:35:09:20 - 00:35:22:16
Jennifer Sey
I think that hard thing now, sorry not to interrupt you. One of the things I find I have to work really hard at is to not be angry. Yeah. Now, because I don't want to be angry. I want to be,
00:35:22:16 - 00:35:28:06
Jennifer Sey
as my friend Tiffany Justice as a joyful warrior. And I want to be grateful for the things that I have.
00:35:28:06 - 00:35:38:01
Jennifer Sey
And I think if I'm really angry, I won't be effective in the way that I communicate. And I certainly won't be happy. I'll be eaten alive by the anger. And,
00:35:38:01 - 00:35:49:14
Jennifer Sey
Doctor Jay is quite good at this. Staying in the in the light and the positive. He's one of the kindest people I know, but I have moments where I'm very angry.
00:35:49:18 - 00:35:59:14
Jennifer Sey
my life is changed forever. I thought I loved San Francisco. I thought I would live there forever. Retire there. I love my place that I lived,
00:35:59:14 - 00:36:14:04
Jennifer Sey
I had created it over many, many years. It was perfect for my family. I thought I would retire at Levi's. I certainly didn't think I would be starting my own business at 55.
00:36:14:04 - 00:36:20:11
Jennifer Sey
And like doing that slog and living in a city that I have no idea what I'm going ever.
00:36:20:11 - 00:36:25:02
Jennifer Sey
But I try to embrace it and be grateful for this, this life and,
00:36:25:02 - 00:36:33:09
Jennifer Sey
not fall prey to too much anger, which can be hard, but I think you have to try to do that.
00:36:33:11 - 00:36:38:08
Wilk Wilkinson
I think you're absolutely right. It's, it's one of the things that I talk to talk about so often,
00:36:38:08 - 00:36:50:18
Wilk Wilkinson
Jen is, is how great a gratitude is the genesis of happiness. And. Yeah. And if we want to be effective messengers then we have to really lean into that.
00:36:50:18 - 00:37:00:12
Wilk Wilkinson
we we have to lean into gratitude. We have to be grateful for what we've got and be able to work through those things that are outside of our control, those things that
00:37:00:12 - 00:37:02:01
Wilk Wilkinson
can just affect
00:37:02:01 - 00:37:04:11
Wilk Wilkinson
our ability to do many things.
00:37:04:13 - 00:37:07:03
Wilk Wilkinson
And in such an ugly, ugly way.
00:37:07:03 - 00:37:11:04
Wilk Wilkinson
that that gratitude, which I'm glad you brought it up because,
00:37:11:04 - 00:37:12:22
Wilk Wilkinson
not enough people understand that,
00:37:12:22 - 00:37:17:13
Wilk Wilkinson
the gratitude factor and and how we're grateful for,
00:37:17:13 - 00:37:18:15
Wilk Wilkinson
in your case, your,
00:37:18:15 - 00:37:32:13
Wilk Wilkinson
your husband being your rock, the one person that stood beside you when, when all this stuff was, was going wrong and and now you have new friends and, and you've got this, this beautiful new business that, that you've started.
00:37:32:15 - 00:37:50:07
Wilk Wilkinson
And I think a lot of people lose sight of the fact that just because one thing ends doesn't mean another thing might not be right around the corner. And we can do great things. And again, I courage, courage,
00:37:50:07 - 00:37:54:09
Wilk Wilkinson
having the courage to step outside of our comfort zone.
00:37:54:09 - 00:38:01:20
Wilk Wilkinson
And that's where real growth happens. And, and I think the world is immensely, or should be immensely grateful,
00:38:01:20 - 00:38:04:23
Wilk Wilkinson
for your words and for what you're doing for,
00:38:04:23 - 00:38:06:04
Wilk Wilkinson
for children,
00:38:06:04 - 00:38:07:12
Wilk Wilkinson
and now for women,
00:38:07:12 - 00:38:08:04
Wilk Wilkinson
with your,
00:38:08:04 - 00:38:09:07
Wilk Wilkinson
XX-XY,
00:38:09:07 - 00:38:10:13
Wilk Wilkinson
clothing line.
00:38:10:15 - 00:38:15:09
Wilk Wilkinson
I mean, there is so much going on here, Jen. So many more things that we could talk about.
00:38:15:09 - 00:38:18:07
Wilk Wilkinson
I would love to continue the conversation, but,
00:38:18:07 - 00:38:20:14
Wilk Wilkinson
but we'll save that for another time.
00:38:20:14 - 00:38:23:18
Wilk Wilkinson
You are incredible. The movie is Generation Covid.
00:38:23:18 - 00:38:29:13
Wilk Wilkinson
Why don't you tell the listeners, where they can find out more about you, more about the movie, and,
00:38:29:13 - 00:38:31:12
Wilk Wilkinson
and we'll wrap this one up and look forward to that.
00:38:31:12 - 00:38:33:18
Jennifer Sey
Yeah. Yeah, I started filming,
00:38:33:18 - 00:38:37:09
Jennifer Sey
with my partner. My. Yeah, directing partner, Andrew James,
00:38:37:09 - 00:38:42:21
Jennifer Sey
in 2022. So we were filming when kids were still really, really in it.
00:38:42:21 - 00:38:46:13
Jennifer Sey
So there's a rawness to it that I think is effective.
00:38:46:13 - 00:38:54:22
Jennifer Sey
You can go to Generation Covid film.com to learn more about the film. It's not out yet, but it will be soon, next few months.
00:38:55:00 - 00:39:04:12
Jennifer Sey
Best way to stay up on the film and just me and the brand XX-XY Athletics is me on X, which is just me, Jennifer Sey.
00:39:04:12 - 00:39:15:16
Jennifer Sey
And check out our brand. We are the. I started the brand as you alluded to, called XX-XY athletics, only a year old, and we're the only athletic brand standing up for fair competition and women's sports.
00:39:15:16 - 00:39:18:01
Jennifer Sey
The protection of women's sports.
00:39:18:03 - 00:39:20:17
Wilk Wilkinson
It's a beautiful thing, speaking up with courage.
00:39:20:17 - 00:39:25:07
Wilk Wilkinson
Thank you so much, Jen. I appreciate your time today and and definitely look forward to,
00:39:25:07 - 00:39:27:09
Wilk Wilkinson
to more conversations in the future.
00:39:27:09 - 00:39:57:05
Wilk Wilkinson
Friends, I want to thank you so much for tuning in. And if there's anything in this episode that provided exceptional value to you, please make sure to hit that share button. If you haven't done so already, please be sure to subscribe to get the Derate the Hate podcast sent to your email inbox every week. We really are better together, so please take a moment to visit Braver angels.org and consider joining the movement towards civic renewal and bridging our political divides.
00:39:57:07 - 00:40:23:08
Wilk Wilkinson
This is Wilk wrapping up for the week saying get out there. Be kind to one another. Be grateful for everything you've got. And remember, it's up to you to make every day the day that you want it to be. With that, my friends, I'm going to back on out of here and we will catch you next week. Take care.
Comments & Upvotes