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Diego Sanchez has lived immigration policy—as an undocumented child, a DACA recipient, an immigration lawyer, and now as Vice President of Policy and Strategy at the Presidents’ Alliance on Higher Education and Immigration. Jim Robb helped build NumbersUSA into one of the most influential immigration restriction groups in the country, spending nearly three decades fighting for the interests of American workers.
For most of those years, their organizations were on opposite sides of nearly every fight. They weren’t talking. Neither side was moving. And Jim, newly named VP of Alliances at NumbersUSA, started wondering if there was another way.
Braver Angels provided the table. The Citizens Commission on Immigration—launched after the 2024 Braver Angels National Convention in Kenosha, Wisconsin—brought together representatives from across the full spectrum of the immigration debate: not to find a split-the-difference compromise, but to see if people with deep, substantive disagreements could still find common ground worth acting on.
Jim and Diego are now co-chairs of the 2026 Braver Angels National Convention in Philadelphia. This conversation, recorded just before the convention opens, is the story of how they got there—and what it actually looks like when former opponents learn to trust each other.
Trust is the prerequisite, not the outcome. Diego and Jim didn’t find common ground and then build a relationship—they built a relationship first, which made honest disagreement possible. Jim’s first impression of Diego wasn’t ideological; it was human. And that changed everything.
Common ground is not middle ground. Both guests push back hard on the assumption that bridge-building means watering down your positions. Jim still wants what NumbersUSA has always wanted. Diego still advocates hard for immigrant communities. What’s changed is how they engage—and what they’re able to accomplish together.
The system is broken. That’s not a talking point—it’s the one thing everyone in the room agrees on. The Citizens Commission starts from that shared frustration and works outward from there, into the harder questions where real disagreements live.
Talking past each other is a strategic failure. Diego has been doing this work for sixteen years. He’s worked across the aisle before—with Republican members of Congress, at Tea Party rallies, with evangelical communities. His read: when advocates only preach to their own side, nothing moves. The commission is trying to change that dynamic at scale.
Congress needs to be brought along, not surprised. The commission’s endgame is a national report on immigration—expected in late 2027. Jim explains why they’ve been quietly engaging members of Congress throughout the process: buy-in requires early investment. A report that lands without warning won’t land at all.
You can disagree on everything and still find a place to start. The Citizens Commission isn’t built on agreement—it’s built on the willingness to keep talking even when agreement feels far away.
Listening to understand is a skill, not a personality trait. Both Diego and Jim describe learning to hear the other side’s concerns as real concerns—not as arguments to be defeated.
What Braver Angels provides is structure and neutrality. The organization doesn’t take a position on immigration policy. What it offers is a process—and a room where people who wouldn’t otherwise sit together actually do.
Civic courage looks like showing up when it’s uncomfortable. Diego, who came to this country as a child and built his life here, describes co-chairing this convention as part of what citizenship means to him—not just having status, but taking responsibility for how we move forward together.
Diego Sanchez
Diego Sanchez is Vice President of Policy and Strategy at the Presidents’ Alliance on Higher Education and Immigration, where he leads the organization’s policy team and legislative agenda. An immigration lawyer and policy strategist with over fifteen years of experience, he works at the intersection of higher education, immigration policy, and government relations. He is also a Non-Resident Fellow at Cornell University’s Center on Global Democracy and serves on the Leadership Team of Braver Angels’ Citizens Commission on Immigration. Diego’s commitment to immigrant students is deeply personal—he came to the United States from Argentina at age nine, spent years undocumented, and was a DACA recipient before eventually adjusting his status and becoming a U.S. citizen.
Organization: Presidents’ Alliance on Higher Education and Immigration
X (Twitter): https://x.com/DiegoNSanchez
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/diegonsanchez/
Jim Robb
Jim Robb is Vice President of Alliances at NumbersUSA, the largest-membership immigration group in the United States. He helped found NumbersUSA nearly thirty years ago and pioneered online political activism tools that have generated more than fifty million contacts to Congress on behalf of members. Jim is the author of Political Migrants: Hispanic Voters on the Move, the first book to trace the movement of Hispanic voters into the Republican Party. He serves as co-chair of the 2026 Braver Angels National Convention and is a central figure in the Citizens Commission on Immigration.
Organization: NumbersUSA — www.NumbersUSA.com
X (Twitter): @jimrobbdc
LinkedIn: jimrobbdc
Learn more about the Citizens Commission on Immigration at braverangels.org/citizens-commission-on-immigration.
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[00:00:00:00] Wilk Wilkinson: US immigration might be the one issue everyone agrees is broken, and the one issue almost no one can talk about without it becoming a fight. My guest today have been fighting each other's organizations for decades. Then they sat down at the same table and something unexpected happened. Stick with me for this bonus DTH episode with the co-chairs of the 2026 Braver Angels National Convention. Welcome back, my friend, to the Derate the Hate podcast. I'm your host, Wilk Wilkinson, your blue collar sage calming outrage and helping to navigate a world divided by fog and those who would spread that fear, outrage and grievance. The Derate the Hate podcast is proudly produced in collaboration with Braver Angels, America's largest grassroots cross partisan organization working toward civic renewal, this podcast amplifies the mission that we share to foster a more respectful and united America where civic friendship thrives even when we disagree. Each week, through the power of story, conversation, and connection with incredible guests, we work to build bridges instead of barriers, not to change minds on the issues, but to change how we see one another when we differ. Because friends, it really is about bettering the world one attitude at a time. We did not create the hate, but together we can Derate the Hate. So be sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcast, share it with a friend and visit Braver Angels to learn how you can get involved in the movement to bridge the partisan divide. Friends, I am so incredibly grateful that you have joined me for another powerful Derate the Hate episode. So let's get to it. Diego Sanchez came to the United States from Argentina at just nine years old. He grew up undocumented. He spent his teenage years not knowing what his future in this country looked like. At 23, DACA gave him a work permit and some measure of stability, but nothing permanent. Eventually, he adjusted his status. Today he's a US citizen, and immigration policy for Diego has never once been abstract. It shaped his childhood, his career and even his marriage. He's now the vice president of policy and strategy at the President's Alliance on Higher Education and Immigration, a nonpartisan alliance of university presidents working on behalf of immigrant and international students. He also serves on the leadership team of Braver Angels Citizen Commission on Immigration. Jim Robb helped found numbers USA nearly 30 years ago, one of the largest immigration focused advocacy groups in the country. The organization was built around a simple idea. Represent the interests of the American workers of every background, and push back on immigration policies that undermine their ability to get ahead. Jim has spent three decades fighting hard for that mission, and then, after 25 years of making little headway, he started looking for new people to talk to. The Citizens Commission on Immigration brought Diego and Jim into the same room. On paper, they were not obvious allies. What happened next is what this conversation is all about. Let's get into it with my friends Diego Sanchez and Jim Robb. Here we go. Diego Sanchez and Jim Robb. Welcome to the Derate the Hate podcast. My friends, it's very good to see you again today.
[00:04:13:12] Jimm Robb: Good to be here.
[00:04:14:16] Diego Sanchez: Thank you for having us Wilk.
[00:04:16:19] Wilk Wilkinson: Absolutely. Diego. I, I know Jim's been on the podcast before, but you have not. So you are new to Derate the hate listeners and and just just for a little context, the reason I have both of you here today is this is going to be a bonus episode for the just just prior to the Braver Angels 2026 National convention happening in Philadelphia this week. It is. It's going to be our biggest convention yet. And back in 2023, I was the Braver Angels Red co-chair for their 2023 national convention this year. You two are the co-chairs. Jim the Red co-chair, Diego the Blue co-chair of the 2026 National convention. We are very excited about that. And I wanted to bring that story because you guys have a fantastic story, wanted to bring that story to the listeners. And and then hopefully a few more of the the Braver Angels delegates. We've got a bunch of new delegates, people that are not completely familiar with Braver Angels, but those folks are going to going to be listening to this throughout the week as the as the convention kicks off. So I wanted to bring that story to them. Diego, I'm going to start with you just just to give a little bit of a background. I know you are currently the vice president of policy and strategy at the President's Alliance. I want to talk a little bit about what the president's alliance is, and then a little bit about your personal background, because I know you're a doctor recipient. You've done a lot of work in terms of immigration. And and that's that's what we're going to lead into, into our story about the two of you and how you met. So so, Diego, let's let's talk a little bit about that. What's the president's alliance? How did you get involved in that. And just tell the listeners a little bit about you.
[00:06:20:02] Diego Sanchez: Awesome. So I'll start with a little bit about me and how I come to this work. I came to the United States from Argentina when I was a child, and it was nine years old. I grew up undocumented as a dreamer, was 1314 years undocumented. And when I was 13, when I was 23 years old, is when I received DACA, which gave me some measure of protection and also opportunity with the work permit. But it was nothing permanent. I was eventually able to adjust my status. Today I'm a proud American citizen, as Jim knows. Earlier this year, after three years of long distance, I was able to bring my wife from Argentina through a process that took far longer than it should have. And so for me, I mean, immigration policies, you know, has never been abstract. I've lived it. It's shaped my my childhood, my work, what I what I'm doing today, my marriage. I did not think that it would affect my marriage, but it did.
[00:07:32:09] Wilk Wilkinson: Yeah.
[00:07:32:18] Diego Sanchez: Yeah. And and also, I think something that I've struggled with for a long time, my sense of belonging in this country as well. I'm a former immigration lawyer. So I've seen, you know, the system not only through my own life, but also through the lives of the families and the clients that I've helped navigate it. And as you mentioned, the vice president of strategy, policy strategy at the President's Alliance on Higher Education and Immigration were nonpartisan Alliance of college university presidents working to advance policies that support immigrant refugee, international students that strengthen our campuses, our communities, and also, you know, our workforce. And so, yeah, I'm happy to go into a bit more detail. I don't fit neatly in a political box. Catholic, politically moderate, generally blue, but independent minded. And so yeah.
[00:08:35:18] Wilk Wilkinson: Oh, and that's great, Diego, because I think a lot of us, you know, when we when we look at the, the big picture, I think a lot of us can say that same thing, right. We can't we don't fit neatly into any one little box. I mean, I've talked about that since I started doing this podcast and, and how we're placed in boxes with labels. But the but the reality is there's much more nuance to all of our stories and, and how our lived experience shapes our political ideology and that it's it's it's never, never as easy as it seems just looking at it from the outside. But, yeah, that's fantastic. Thank you for sharing that. And then, Jim, obviously you've been on the on the Derate the Hate podcast before. So the listeners, some of the listeners may be familiar with you, vice president of alliances at the At numbers USA. This is an immigration policy think tank. Right. That.
[00:09:34:09] Jimm Robb: Well it's a it's an activist group.
[00:09:36:09] Wilk Wilkinson: Activist group okay. Activist group that that you've been with for 29, 30 years. One of the founding founding members, vice president of alliances right now. And so we'll talk a little bit about that. But but again, for the listeners, I want you both or both I want them to understand about both of you is the way that you two met. And what makes your story so incredible is at Braver Angels. You know, coming out of the 2024 convention, the, the, the, the initiative that we all voted on as the big initiative was immigration. And that spurred the the creation of the Citizens Commission on Immigration, of which, you know, both of you are a very big part. So, Jim, talk to me and tell the listeners, you know, quickly, a little bit about numbers USA, what you do with numbers USA and then how numbers USA got involved with the Citizens Commission on Immigration coming out of that 2024 Braver Angels National Convention that happened at Kenosha, Wisconsin.
[00:10:53:04] Jimm Robb: Okay. Well, yeah, that's those are great questions. So numbers USA was started to just represent a different constituency than some of the other groups we were to we set our mind to represent the interest of the American worker of every ethnicity. Right. And to so that people were not added to the country so fast that people on the bottom of our economy couldn't get ahead because they were overwhelmed with basically too many people to get a job, to get one job. So that was the idea. We we, we, we were founded when the African American civil rights icon, former Congresswoman Barbara Jordan, and her National Commission on Immigration tried to get certain reforms that would accomplish pretty much the things that we are we're for at numbers USA and to try to get it through Congress. But most of the report got chewed up and spat out by Congress 30 years ago because she had died of of diabetes just a couple of months before the report was issued. So no one was there to champion it. And so we just wanted to get those reforms through. That's still what we're trying to do now. We've fought vigorously for what we what we want, and we fought vigorously against things that were going to happen in Congress. That would be that we thought we were not in the interest of the American worker. So, again, of all ethnicities. So but in the midst of that, I've done every job at numbers USA, but president and right. I've worked on the technology I fundraising, recruitment, everything really research. But after like 25 years of this, I looked I looked around and I said, you know what? We're getting nowhere because the people on the other side of the street day go and and the alliance of the loose alliance of people who are trying to get certain things accomplished are blocked by us. And everything we're trying to get to do is blocked by them. Not that we necessarily disagreed on everything, but it's just like we we couldn't come together, right? And we weren't talking. So I was named vice president of alliances about 3 or 4 years ago, and I started looking around for anyone who wanted to talk. Right. Can we can we do something? Because I was just so tired of useless fighting. Yeah. And wanted pragmatic solutions for the country. And so Braver Angels got this. It was it so happened. Was very interested in this same concept past this president this sorry the Citizens Commission on Immigration. And anyway, I was in a room with Diego and people on my side, the other side, sides I had not ever dealt with at all. There's more than two sides, right? There's several sites. Yeah, yeah.
[00:14:01:23] Wilk Wilkinson: And and all these things.
[00:14:03:14] Jimm Robb: Yeah. Very nuanced. So. And I found out. Oh. Guess what I, I like these people, you know, I can trust these people. And I was, I was seated next to Diego at our, our first meeting I think. And yeah, it was the first meeting and. Diego should probably say what happened then.
[00:14:27:01] Wilk Wilkinson: Yeah. Please, Diego, talk to us about that first meeting. When when all of a sudden you realize you're sitting next to Jim Robb from from numbers USA. Talk to me about that. That initial reaction and and how that meeting went.
[00:14:42:05] Diego Sanchez: So definitely a surprise. I was not too familiar with Braver Angels before that meeting came into that meeting, knowing that Mark Korean would be there from kiss, it was not did not know Jim until then. Be honest. On paper, Jim and I were not obvious friends. We come from very different places in immigration debate, as Jim just shared, but when we were seated right next to each other, what surprised me the most was that we were able to talk honestly without performing for our sites. I remember getting the Jim's card and I was like, wow, numbers USA, this same organization that we fought against for so many years. I've been doing this work for about 16 years now. Remember working on the Gang of Eight bill in 2013, 2014? I you know, I knew exactly where numbers USA was on this bill. It did not pass right. I was rooting for for one way and numbers USA sis and the other folks were voting no other way. But, you know, I think what as I got to know Jim a bit more and I completely agree that building trust makes a big difference. I could hear Jim's concerns were rooted in a view about workers and the national interest in a way that I didn't before. Right? Because we kept screaming past each other and he could hear that. For me, this was about people, families and the country of call home and and all that. And the moment we kind of, you know, stopped and just thought about that for a second, just listen to one another. I think that made all the big difference. I think we we did build enough trust to have better disagreement. Yeah. And so, you know, I can respect Jim. He can respect me. And we still, you know, can strongly disagree on parts of our policy agenda. And I think that that's what that's what the beauty of, of the work that we're doing with Braver Angels is all about.
[00:16:49:18] Wilk Wilkinson: Yeah. And this is you said something there, Diego, that I want to point out that that I think is hugely important is you guys still disagree on on quite a bit, right? I mean, there's sure there are things that you guys agree on now that you didn't agree on before because.
[00:17:05:02] Jimm Robb: We were dictator, we probably set immigration system up quite a bit different. Problem is, neither one of us are a dictator. So we may we may.
[00:17:14:19] Wilk Wilkinson: I don't see that as a problem.
[00:17:16:10] Jimm Robb: Yeah, I.
[00:17:17:03] Wilk Wilkinson: Like the fact that we don't live in a, in a, in a world.
[00:17:20:01] Jimm Robb: Right.
[00:17:20:12] Wilk Wilkinson: And what I.
[00:17:21:06] Jimm Robb: Mean, you know, is that we can't Diego can't have it his way. I can't have it my way. We're going to have to find out if there's an hour away.
[00:17:28:08] Wilk Wilkinson: Yeah. So. So, Jim, then talk to me about, you know, when we think about, you know, Diego said you guys were talking past each other for a number of years, you know, and maybe not each other, but the organizations were just talking past each other and not getting anything done. And that was a frustration that you said that you had. And that's one thing that you wanted to address when you became VP of alliances. You know, when you actually sat down with Diego, you know, that first time and started hearing his story about how this had affected him. You know, growing up from a child in this country, being here in a legal status and then and then how it has affected him and his family and stuff like that. Talk to me about what that was for you and, and and then and how it changed your perspective a little bit on on the conversation from a, from a more holistic level.
[00:18:28:00] Jimm Robb: So, I mean, Diego is modest, but he was really well known in immigration circles because he had been one of the poster children for the, for the, for the dreamer movement and the DACA program in particular before it happened, urging that something like that to happen. Right. And then so he's met with Trump and he met with Obama. And so but when I met him for that on that same day, I sort of looked at him, you know, he's no longer naming a newspaper now. He's a real person. And I see oh, he's he's very quiet, modest of manner. Nothing radical about him, right. He's, he's and he was immediately. And by that, I mean he was immediately once we were conversing, acknowledging that there was more than one side to this. Right. And it's like, what's good? What's good for America may not be exactly the same as what Jim and I want. If everything were left to us, there may be other ways to skin this cat, to use that disturbing sounding phrase. And. Yeah, and then he just sounded like someone who's trustworthy I could work with. I just had that immediate impression and so well spoken and, you know, and and looking around the table, there were other people like that. I mean, a few of them that I had expected to be wild eyed radicals or something like that, you know, just or so dug in that they couldn't hear any other perspective. Right? Yeah. And that's what people thought I was for. Sure. Sure. Just because where it came from. But it's like, no, actually, I mean, look, I, I my attitude was, I'm looking for people who will talk to me and let's really see. I realize we have lots of stuff, public positions against each other, but let's really dig into it deeper. Is there any possible points of agreement at all? Can we agree on one thing? And you know, as we started talking, as this group began functioning, I found out we really agree on a lot of things.
[00:20:40:04] Wilk Wilkinson: I mean, on a number of things, right?
[00:20:42:00] Jimm Robb: A number of things. And that doesn't mean we've all met in the mushy middle. So this is what this is what people don't get about this kind of work. Right. Well, it's.
[00:20:51:22] Wilk Wilkinson: Like I think that's the greatest. I mean, I think that's the, the, the gist of it, that's that's the great thing about this. And the biggest misconception that we find, you know, being in this space and doing this work is, is all the naysayers want to say, well, you know, you guys just want to find some mushy middle ground or, or, you know, this, this kumbaya middle ground. And I always say, you know what? Common ground is not middle ground. That's not what we're here to do. That's not. And I don't want to conflate the two, because common ground and middle ground are very different things. And and you know, back to the point of you guys still have plenty of things that you disagree about, but you guys have developed this bond same way with Doctor Francis Collins and me. And the work that we've done with the Truth and Trust Project, there are still a lot of things that him and I disagree about quite vehemently on with regard to the government's response to the pandemic, but that doesn't change how we feel about each other and the friendship that we've built together and the way that we, you know, now talk to each other. And not that we ever talk to each other, you know, in an ugly fashion. But but again, like so many people, they believe that we just have this, you know, meet in the middle, mushy middle ground or, you know, kind of soft sided thing. Diego dive in a little bit when you first were sitting at that table with the Citizens Commission on Immigration. And, whether it be listening to Jim talk about, how it affected the workers and the workers of in the United States that that we're already having a very difficult time finding their way or trying to navigate their way to to some kind of middle class and how immigration affected that when you were hearing Jim and maybe others in that room talk about that. What did that do for you? And was that like the first time that you had heard that argument, or was it the first time that that maybe you heard it in a way where it wasn't, you know, just we always talk about listening to to respond or listening, you know, rather than understand. Talk to me about that a little bit and how and how you felt when the Citizens Commission on Immigration brought you in and, and you guys started having these conversations?
[00:23:15:21] Diego Sanchez: Yeah. And so the first thing I'll say that that I think we just need to continue to restate, just because of how important it is, that Braver Angels was able to bring people with very different beliefs in on the issue of immigration together for the first time, sitting at the same table. And so that has never happened before. So that in itself, and I think what was great about that is that River angels is neutral on this. Right. And so that just helped us. You know, it just created this space where people could come in and, and Braver Angels would serve as a convener to, to move these conversations forward. And I think it's just so important. It can't be understated because bravery has, I think, accomplished a lot by just bringing us together and sitting at the same table. And so I do want to just mention that I grew up in Miami in South Florida. Now it's relatively red, and I grew up in my advocacy days, a community organizer, as a student, etc. I'm used to working with both sides of the aisle. Mario Diaz-Balart was a Republican from Miami, was the lead on the House side for the Gang of Eight bill. So we worked very closely with him. No issues. Right. Senator Marco Rubio, then Senator Marco Rubio, was my senator in 2013. Right. He was part of the Gang of Eight. We worked very closely with his office. And so, you know, I come to this work on understanding those realities. And in 2013, when my, my friend Gabby Pacheco and I were working on something called the Bridge Project, there was a two year project that we thought was very necessary to start engaging both sides in bringing that bridge between not only the advocacy community on immigration, but also Democrats and Republicans. On the issue of immigration. We understood that. We kept preaching to the choir, and that was not moving the debate forward. We needed to reach across the aisle, and we did that. Specifically, the bridge project was focused on working with conservatives and Republicans, right, with bridging that gap. And so I have experience going into Tea Party rallies, going to evangelical meetings. We did a tour around the country in 2013, I think it was 16 cities, and we started in representative McCarthy in California and all the way to New York. That's when I got a chance to meet Donald Trump. He was not a president yet, specifically on the issue of dreamers. But I think when when I came to this work, after practicing law. You know, we come into this work always just a suit with a bunch of assumptions about the other side, as I said, you know, speaking past each other. So we're not. And I think as you said, well, we're not listening to understand. We're listening to respond. Right. And so I think very quickly I realized that we I mean, we agreed on a lot, right, with the folks that are in the room. And they think it's important to start with the things that we do agree on. Right?
[00:26:33:04] Jimm Robb: Right.
[00:26:33:15] Wilk Wilkinson: Yes.
[00:26:33:23] Diego Sanchez: We do agree that the current system is broken. Congress has failed to act for far too long. We agree the status quo creates incentives for exploitation, right? Leaves too many people vulnerable for employers, etc. we agreed that the the debate is has become so toxic that makes, you know, solutions much harder. And so, you know, we may differ on what solution, what the solution should look like. But you know, who should include should be included and how we should balance the different priorities. But I think the agreement that the status quo is just unacceptable. Right? I think it's what where we we start off by finding that agreement, the point of agreement as Braver Angels of refers to it. And then we discuss the different things that we don't agree on, but always trying to find that coming round. Right, right.
[00:27:33:06] Wilk Wilkinson: Well, and I think and I've said this time and time and time again on this podcast and in other places, but, but you know, when and this is why I love what you're talking about here, Diego. Because when a movement is built upon what it's against rather than what it's for, I think it's doomed to fail. And I think far too, too much of what we see today focus is on the negative rather than the positive focuses on what we're what we're against or what we disagree on, rather than what we're for and what we agree on. Jim, talk to me a little bit about, in terms of the Citizens Commission on Immigration, what is the the biggest thing that you've been taken away from this so far? And, and and then as we, as we round out our time because we've, we've gone through a lot of time here and we're getting close to the end of it. But as people come to the Braver Angels National Convention in Philadelphia this week. What are they going to find out about the Citizens Commission on Immigration and and as one of the co-chairs. And then I'm going to turn this give this back to Diego after after you. You know, you tell me. But but what are they going to find out about the Citizens Commission on Immigration? And as one of the co-chairs, what do you really like about the, I guess, the idea of being one of the co-chairs at this convention in this 250th birthday year of our country.
[00:28:58:13] Jimm Robb: Well, thanks, Wilk. Just a few things really. First, just the fact that Diego and I are put up there, up front on this convention says that Braver Angels is really bought in to the Citizens Commission on Immigration. It's not some side effort. It's it's a it's definitely main stage for the organization, all hands on deck. And it's a very large effort is the second thing. Right. So Braver Angels has what over 125 local alliances. And a lot of them have been having events right along in the last 2 or 3, two years, I guess, on immigration debates and especially common ground workshops. So which in which you get people seven reds and seven blues and a moderator in a room and say, what can we agree on unanimously? And that's an interesting exercise. And that's so a big local grassroots effort all across the country. And then in Washington, under the leadership of Doctor Peter Skerry of Boston College, who's the chairman of the roundtable, we've got this thing in which we we sought out to find all the players in this or the people who represent all the the players and come to the table, the people who sort of, you know, between us, we've we've either been fighting for for decades or, or we've, we've, we've not been agreeing at a minimum. And very many of us have been fighting. So we've been able to get these people in a room and then have meeting after meeting as we go through the hardest of issues, the things where it's not it's not just going on, the few niceties that we agree on, but we're getting into those tough issues. And sometimes we say, you know what? You're making a good point. There you go. Right. And and he says, you know, sometimes I see your point, Jen. And then just put this over the whole group. And it's it's a very interesting exercise. And then we're bringing Congress into it already and getting them ready for what's going to what's the big deliverable on this whole effort, which is a report to the nation, which should appear maybe last part of next year or early. Yeah. And around that and it's well, we know that if Congress doesn't know about something in advance, they don't feel like they have some stake in it. They're not likely to take it very seriously. And they've got so many things coming at them. So it's like you've you've got to have that meeting and which they say, oh, okay. All right. This could be interesting. I'd be interesting to find out if you guys are normally just, you know, fighting can actually agree on some stuff and bring and they can you bring grassroots along with you and, you know, make our job easier. Maybe. So that's that's the thing. And I think people who come to the convention, the delegates are going to be amazed at how well the people who are the former antagonists, or at least their groups were the former antagonists, are like getting along. It doesn't mean we've solved everything. We haven't solved everything, but it means we're talking respectfully and we're listening hard, and we're trying to tease out points of agreement, and we're making progress. And I think people are going to I know a lot of people because they tell me this all the time, get depressed even when the topic of immigration comes up. Yeah, because it's been such a downer in our in our society politically, the political part. Right. Because it's like, man, it's just fighting, fighting, fighting. And it depresses people. Right. And so yeah, and all these alarming news headlines and, you know, on one side and the other, everyone's got a gripe. And some of them are really, really big. So I think people will be will be pleased to find out. Here's one place where talking about immigration doesn't give you heartburn.
[00:32:53:03] Wilk Wilkinson: There you go. Well, and I think that's I think that's awesome. And I and I want that's that's what I want people to as they're coming to the Braver Angels National convention or, or watching us on, on YouTube or other broadcast. You know, one, one thing I want them to take away is, is there is positive things going on. This is this is one of the greatest and most positive things that that Braver Angels has worked on in a lot of time. Diego mentioned it. You know, we don't take a policy stance on it, but we provide a structure by which you guys are able to do these incredible things. And and so, Diego, I'm going to give you the final word here as we we finish out our time. Talk to me. You know, as one of the co-chairs of this convention and, you know, bringing this bringing this, this idea the citizen commission of on immigration to, you know, in excess of 800, you know, somewhere between 800 and 1000 delegates by the time registrations are all done. What do you want people to take away from the Citizens Commission on Immigration? And what do you want to take away as a co-chair of this, of this convention this week?
[00:34:03:07] Diego Sanchez: Yeah. And just for, for for my my $0.02 on the commission that I think it's trying to do something that is both modest but also very ambitious. It's not pretending that immigration can be solved in one room. We're not saying that it you know, we're asking if we bring together people who deeply disagree with one another, can they still find areas of common ground that are, you know, serious enough to matter? And then thinking about the constituent conversations that follow the common ground workshops, these conversations with members of Congress that sit down and listen to the constituents. Also, can we model the process that Congress and national leaders have largely failed to practice? Right. And so can we do enough of these constituent conversations around the country to also try and change the narrative a little bit from all the toxicity, you know, toxicity that that's out there? So, you know, on a personal level, obviously feels very special to be doing this in Philadelphia, you know, especially, as you said, this country approaching 250th anniversary. Yeah. Someone who came here as a child grew up undocumented, now proud U.S. citizen. I think a lot about what it means to belong to this country and to help shape its future. I see it as a as a great responsibility. And so, you know, serving as co-chair with Jim, you know, does not mean that all the hard questions have been resolved or far away from that. They haven't. I don't want to pretend otherwise, but I do agree with what you said, Wilk, is we need more spaces where people can be honest about the their disagreements without giving up on each other. Right? And turning and turning around on each other. So I think for me, it's that part of what citizenship means to it's not just having status that I have the privilege of having status now, but also just taking responsibility for how we talk to one another and how we try to move this country forward.
[00:36:20:06] Wilk Wilkinson: That is so beautiful and a great note to end on. Thank you so much, Diego Sanchez and Jim Rob. I look forward to seeing you later in the week, and you guys are going to do an incredible job as co-chairs of the 2026 Braver Angels National Convention. Thank you so much, guys. I appreciate you. I appreciate all the work that you're doing and keep it up.
[00:36:43:20] Jimm Robb: Thanks.
[00:36:44:19] Diego Sanchez: Thank you. Wilk.
[00:36:46:21] Wilk Wilkinson: Friends, I want to thank you so much for tuning in. And if there's anything in this episode that provided exceptional value to you, please make sure to hit that share button. If you haven't done so already, please be sure to subscribe to get the Derate The Hate podcast sent to your email inbox every week. We really are better together. So please take a moment to visit Braver Angels and consider joining the movement towards civic renewal and bridging our political divide. This is Wilk wrapping up for the week saying get out there. Be kind to one another. Be grateful for everything you've got. And remember, it's up to you to make every day the day that you want it to be. With that, my friend. I'm going to back on out of here and we will catch you next week. Take care.
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