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“You’ve heard the Golden Rule your whole life… but what if it’s actually getting in the way of your most important relationships?”
What if one small shift completely changed the way you communicate?
In Episode 308, Wilk Wilkinson sits down again with Jennifer Furlong to revisit one of the most impactful ideas ever discussed on the show: The Platinum Rule.
You know the Golden Rule — treat people the way you want to be treated. It works… until it doesn’t. Because the moment you’re dealing with someone who thinks differently, communicates differently, or sees the world differently — that approach starts to break down.
The Platinum Rule flips it: treat people the way they want to be treated.
Simple in theory. Hard in practice.
This conversation gets into what that actually looks like — listening with intention, letting go of the need to win, and learning how to communicate across real differences. Because the goal isn’t agreement… it’s shared meaning.
“Instead of treating others the way you want to be treated… treat them the way they want to be treated.”
We don’t all communicate the same way — and that’s where friction starts.
Most of us default to one. Problems happen when we assume everyone else does too. The Platinum Rule is about recognizing that — and adapting.
“You cannot hate somebody into believing what you believe.”
This conversation is a reminder: communication isn’t about winning — it’s about understanding. And that takes intention, awareness, and more patience than most of us are used to bringing into hard conversations.
✔️ The Golden Rule is a starting point — not the finish line
✔️ Listening with intention is the skill
✔️ Acknowledgment does not equal agreement
✔️ Shared meaning > winning arguments
✔️ Your ego is usually the biggest barrier
✔️ Not every conversation needs to continue
Jennifer Furlong is a communications strategist and coach with over 30 years of experience across the military, higher education, and consulting. She launched her career as a journalist while serving on active duty in the U.S. Marine Corps and now leads Communication TwentyFourSeven, helping people navigate complex conversations with clarity and purpose.
Her core belief is simple: most problems get easier when we learn how to communicate better.
🌐Website: communicationtwentyfourseven.com
💼 LinkedIn: Jennifer Furlong
▶ YouTube: Communication TwentyFourSeven
This episode isn’t about tactics — it’s about how you show up.
Slow down. Listen better. Ask what the other person needs.
Because if we’re serious about bridging divides… it starts there.
The world is a better place if we are better people. That begins with each of us as individuals. Be kind to one another. Be grateful for all you’ve got. Make every day the day that you want it to be!
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The Derate The Hate podcast is proudly produced in collaboration with Braver Angels — America’s largest grassroots, cross-partisan organization working toward civic renewal and bridging partisan divides. Learn more: BraverAngels.org
Welcome to the Derate The Hate Podcast!
*The views expressed by Wilk, his guest hosts &/or guests on the Derate The Hate podcast are their own and should not be attributed to any organization they may otherwise be affiliated with.
Transcript is AI generated and may contain errors
[00:00:00:00] Wilk Wilkinson: You've all heard of the Golden Rule. Treat people the way you want to be treated. But what if that's actually getting in the way of your most important relationships? My guest today is going to flip that script, and I think it's going to change the way that you show up in every conversation you have. Stick with me. Welcome back, my friends, for the Derate the Hate podcast. I'm your host, Wilk Wilkinson, your blue collar sage calming outrage and helping to navigate a world divided by fog and those who would spread that fear, outrage and grievance. The Derate the Hate podcast is proudly produced in collaboration with Braver Angels, America's largest grassroots cross. partisan organization working towards civic renewal. This podcast amplifies the mission that we share to foster a more respectful and united America where civic friendship thrives even when we disagree. Each week, through the power of story, conversation, and connection with incredible guests, we work to build bridges instead of barriers, not to change minds on the issues, but to change how we see one another when we differ. Because friends, it really is about bettering the world one attitude at a time. We did not create the hate, but together we can Derate the Hate. So be sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcast. Share it with a friend and visit BraverAngels.org to learn how you can get involved in the movement to bridge the partisan divide. Friends, I am so incredibly grateful that you have joined me for another powerful Derate the Hate episode. So let's get to it. All right. My guest today is no stranger to the podcast. She was with us back on episode 135, and that conversation specifically around something called the Platinum Rule has stuck with me. And honestly, I brought it up more times than I can count. Since then. So we are going a bit deeper on that today, and we're going to get even deeper. Jennifer Furlong is a communication strategist and coach who has built her entire platform. Communication 24 seven around one core belief. Most of the problems that we face in life get easier when we actually learn how to talk to each other. She holds both a bachelor's and master's degree in communication. She launched her career as a journalist while serving on active duty in the United States Marine Corps, and has spent the last 30 years working across military, higher education and consulting with deep expertise in crisis communication, media relations and media literacy. And here's the thing all of that background isn't just a resume. It's what makes the way that she talks about communication feel real and grounded and practical. We get into the platinum rule, communication styles, how to actually listen with intention, and how to navigate conversations with people you fundamentally disagree with without losing your mind or your humanity. Let's get into it with my friend Jennifer Furlong. Here we go. Jennifer Furlong. Welcome back to the Derate The Hate podcast. It is so great to see you again today.
[00:03:54:00] Jennifer Furlong: It's great to be here. Thank you for asking me back. This is exciting. I'm really happy to be here.
[00:03:59:08] Wilk Wilkinson: And I am happy that you are here. we've had a number of conversations, and, but, but you've only been on the podcast one time back in episode 135. We talked about the, the platinum rule, which is something that I've brought up so many times now, whether it be on the podcast or in other conversations. Jen talking about the platinum rule and, and, I want to revisit that with you because it's, it's so important, for the listeners that that haven't heard that episode, episode 135. But the platinum rule is really about not treating people, you know, the golden rule, the old golden rule is treat other people as you would want them to treat you or as you want to be treated. And, and one of the things when I started looking at the work that you were doing way back in, in the day when we did episode 135, which seems like forever ago now, but but when I saw that the platinum rule was, no, it's not about treating people as you wish to be treated. It's about treating people as they wish to be treated. So I'm going to have you dive into that first Jan and talk about the platinum rule. For those that may not have heard that episode when we did it back, back a few years ago.
[00:05:16:05] Jennifer Furlong: Absolutely. And, let me preface this by saying, because I know this will ruffle a few feathers, people who are beholden to the Golden rule. I want to make sure that we emphasize, we're not saying the Golden rule is a bad rule. It's it is a great rule to start with. Right? It's a very simple rule, especially when we're trying to teach children this concept of empathy. Right. It's it's a really difficult concept to try to teach a young child. So it's the easiest way for us to get them to start thinking in ways, and how am I interacting with someone? And so it's an easy question. Say, hey, you would want that to happen to you, right? Or you wouldn't want someone to say that to you. But as we get older and as our relationships get more complicated, and, we begin to have different types of relationships. You know, we have friendships, we have significant others, romantic relationships. We have long term work relationships. As those relationships and experiences become more complex. The golden rule, as great of a rule as it is, it's not necessarily helpful in, in those more complicated relationship. And what I mean by that is, you know, we're all different. We all have different want. We all have different needs, different desires, different goals, different dreams, and it's absolutely 100% okay to be different. Absolutely. Yeah. Have have all of these, you know, different aspects to our lives. But one thing that we tend to forget is that the way we interact with others, the way we communicate with others, what I might prefer, is not something that someone else would prefer. So in in having conversations with someone in your long term relationships, these more complex relationships really just think about think what? How do they want you to communicate with them? So instead of treat others the way you want them to treat you, treat others the way they want you to treat them, it's a completely different way. You have to put yourself in the back seat at this point and really think about, okay, if I'm communicating with this person and I know that, they much prefer to have a more direct style of communication, they don't need all the details. They just want me to get to the point where I'm just going to get to the point. Yeah. And that's going to help that conversation go much more smoothly, you know? Well, yeah. Well, it doesn't matter the relationship if you can figure that out, then, you've you've done a very good job at helping that relationship solidify that relationship just a little bit more because of that.
[00:08:21:13] Wilk Wilkinson: It absolutely does. And this brings to mind so many things for me, Jen, because I think about, different people that that I've worked for over the course of my life. And I, I think about different people that have worked for me, over the course of my career and it really, it really takes into account the, the nuances of all people. And this is where it's so important for me. And this is, this is why I get actually so excited about this particular topic, is because, number one, when I think about communication, communication should be more about listening than, than speaking. And, and, and listening with intention, which people have heard me talk about, so many times. Listening with intention is really about truly understanding the person that you're speaking with, listening with intention to that person, understanding not just what they believe, but why they believe it, and also understanding what it is that person is looking to get out of this conversation. What are our desired end goals, you know, desired outcomes, and how do we get there? I've had bosses who who simply. You're right. They just want, you know, boom, boom, boom. Just the facts, ma'am. Kind of, you know, kind of like the the the old, What was it? Dragnet. Right. I think I think that's from.
[00:09:46:09] Jennifer Furlong: Yeah, it was Dragnet.
[00:09:47:03] Wilk Wilkinson: Yeah, yeah. With, Officer Friday or whatever. Just the facts. Right. And they don't want any fluff. They don't want any conversation. They just want, you know? Okay, that's I get it. That's that's what you want. Me? I'm a person who likes a little bit more detail. I want a little bit, you know, I don't want all the fluff, but some of the fluff. I want some of it. And and and there's other people that just need a little bit more attention. But you'll never know exactly how much that person needs unless you know them. So when you talk about, you know, the, the, the more intimate relationships and knowing somebody, this is obviously not somebody that you can put into place. The first conversation that you have with him or the first couple minutes of that conversation, but it's definitely something that you should pick up on. Yeah. When you're having that conversation and developing that relationship and learning what that person needs from you so that you guys can come to the desired outcomes that you both or however many people are looking to get.
[00:10:47:08] Jennifer Furlong: Yeah, you got to pay attention. You gotta pay attention to the other person. And, you have to be willing to be quiet for a little while. And when you do ask and be willing to ask questions and the deeper questions and in what you were saying earlier about, you know, goals, and going into a conversation with the goal of, okay, I understand that we might disagree on something, right? But I do want to listen to try to understand that doesn't necessarily mean I'm going to agree with you at the end of this. That doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to change my mind. You know, at the end of this, but giving a good faith effort to say, okay, I am going to keep my ears open and listen with good intentions. And as we continue to communicate, I'm going to try to discern how I can best adapt my communication style to your communication style. So if I'm paying attention long enough and I can listen to how you communicate and the different topics that you focus on, you know, as you communicate, then I'm going to be able to pick up on some things that I can use. If my goal is to try to connect with you in some way, I want to be able to to pick up on your preferences, on how you communicate and what you like to communicate about. But that takes, I think that takes, some confidence in, in understanding that that doesn't mean you're acquiescing, you know, to the other person. It just means that you're using this as a tool to make a connection. That's really, at the end of the day, what what you're trying to do, what the goal is. But it does take a lot of practice to be able to do that.
[00:12:55:13] Wilk Wilkinson: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Well, all good communication is going to take practice and, and and 1 to 1 thing they said there I want to highlight, because I think I need to highlight this in, in almost all conversations is the idea that acknowledgment is not agreement.
[00:13:11:10] Jennifer Furlong: Yeah.
[00:13:12:02] Wilk Wilkinson: Right. When when we acknowledge what somebody is saying, it acknowledgment does not equal agreement. And and acknowledging something is more for the person rather than the topic. You know, when we think about, listening again, listening with intention and trying to pick up on, what somebody's saying, or, you know, how they want it to be communicated. If we want them to listen to us in any way, Jen, we've got to show them that that we're listening to them and and that acknowledgment piece is so huge a question that I have for you when it comes to this, that, that I guess I, I don't know if I've ever even asked anybody this question before, but but it's something I've thought about and and maybe you have an answer for me, but do you find that people communicate like, outwardly the way that they want to, you know, get, you know, receive their communication? And the reason that I ask it is because I don't know that that's been my life experience all the time that that, you know, people will will talk to me the way that they want to be talked back to. But but does that question make sense? Because I'm not even sure if I'm asking it the right way. But but when we're trying to pick up on what somebody is looking for in how they're going to receive something, is is the biggest tell how they're saying it or how they are communicating or where where do we how do we pick up on those things?
[00:14:45:17] Jennifer Furlong: Yeah, I think one of the things that I do when I, do communication skills training is there's the communications assessment is a communication style assessment. And, you know, it's like any other assessment, you answer a series of questions or, you know, respond to a series of statements. And, this communication styles assessment that I use has been around for quite some time. And it's it's an excellent one in that it really gets you to understand. Oh, that's why I am the way I am. And that's why you are the way you are. But from a communications lens. So you're exactly right. If you pay attention to how someone communicates, it's going to give you little clues as to how they actually do prefer communication. You know, there's basically four, four main styles of communication. And we all have these styles already within us. It's just that usually we'll have one that ends up being our go to style. It's like our default setting, if you will. If you will. You know, some of us do prefer more of that direct, action oriented type of style where you don't you don't need a lot of fluff. Just start with the conclusion. You tell me what, you tell me what the results are. That's all I'm interested in. And then you'll have someone who is more of that process oriented type of communication style, where they're going to look at the pros and the cons and the details, and they really want to get into, the minutia. Right? They really want to understand, everything that they can understand. And, those two, as you can imagine, the friction point is you've got that, action oriented style. It's like, why do I need to stop telling me all of this?
[00:16:43:23] Wilk Wilkinson: Just I don't need all the details.
[00:16:46:03] Jennifer Furlong: Yeah, and then you have the process. Sorry to interrupt, but these details are important, right? And they are important, you know, and then you have ideation style. These are the people that tend to we think they have their heads in the clouds. Right? They're always brainstorming. They're always like, you know, what, you know would be a great thing to do. And then everybody groans because, oh, here we go again. But that's important to have as well. And then the fourth style is the people oriented communication style. These are usually the cheerleaders you know. So they're the ones in any organization. They're usually the ones that you can go to if if you have an event coming up, they're going to make sure that everybody gets the invitation. They're going to make sure that everything is going well. Or if you know you're having a difficult conversation, they're the ones that are going to check in to make sure that you're okay. You know, everyone feels comfortable going to them. And the great thing about this is we need all of these different communication styles in order to be effective. But generally we will have one style that is our default setting. But we have all of the styles within us. We just have to learn how to adapt to those styles. And that's what takes the practice. So I know, okay, you are a process oriented person. So I know when I'm listening to you, you're giving me all those details. So I have to say, all right, let him tell me the details.
[00:18:18:20] Wilk Wilkinson: Right, right.
[00:18:20:08] Jennifer Furlong: Let's add some of the details. And I know when I talk to you, that's going to be what you want. That's what you're interested in. So I'm going to make sure that I give you those details before I give you the recommendation. You know, for.
[00:18:32:09] Wilk Wilkinson: Now, it's, and it's so funny and because. Yeah, and I've worked for, for people who who have just come out and said to me, you know, just just tell me what the end point is. If I have questions, I'll ask. That's right. I don't need everything. And then there's, you know, it's it's it is funny because. And then I used to have a boss who would call me Rain Man all the time because I'd give him too many details and he would just kind of sit there and then finally you'd get tired and be like, okay, Rain Man, enough, get to the end and we're done.
[00:19:04:03] Jennifer Furlong: Why do I need to do that? Why do I need to know this?
[00:19:06:15] Wilk Wilkinson: Yeah, right. No. It's funny. It's funny. But but yeah, it's it's so true. And, it's it is. And, you know, you talk about being able to adapt. And I think that first part, just like all things or most things, you know, in human relations and how we interact with people, the first part is recognition. And that recognition, starts with, really looking at who we're speaking with and again, what our desired outcomes are. Who are we speaking with, who are they? What is it that they need from me out of this conversation to get where we want to get to? And then once we get that recognition part out of the way, then we can adapt and and work through it. So that's so important. So so Jen, let's let's also talk a little bit then about and I want to transition this a little bit into okay. So the communication is is the big part. And and communication is a huge part of, of what I talk about in how we interact with people. But not only just how we interact with people, because it's not always going to be a situation where, okay, well, we're on the same page or, you know, we're working together and this and that. Sometimes there's going to be ideological differences in, in how in people that, that we're speaking with. And I was having a, a conversation, I guess, online today with somebody who, was just, I don't want to say beside themselves, but, but, but pretty upset about, trying to communicate with people, on the other side of the political spectrum. Let's just put it that way. I mean, obviously Braver Angelsorganization that I work for, an incredible organization trying to bridge, political and societal divides. people would claim that this is the most divided and ugly times that we've we've seen in our lifetimes. But, you know, I, I spend a lot of time online trying to help people work through those things. And this particular person that I was having this conversation with was was just like, I can't do it. I cannot, speak with these people who think I'm evil, racist, bigoted by blah blah. And I'm like, I get it. I mean, I get it, I feel your pain. So when when you're speaking with somebody Jen, what advice would you give to somebody? Because siloing ourselves from those people is, is never going to be a good answer, because the more we silo ourselves, the less we understand that the other side or those people that we disagree with, you know, the us versus them, gets more exacerbated when we silo ourselves from people with, with, with differing AI ideas that differ from our own. So what do you what do you say to people then, when you're teaching them to communicate, but specifically communicating with people that they know that they are going to disagree with or maybe they know I don't like their position on a particular thing.
[00:22:13:20] Jennifer Furlong: Probably. And this was something that we had to grapple with often when I was a media analyst. You know, I think when you and I, first met, I was still working for an organization, as a media analyst, where I had to work with other analysts from across the political spectrum. And, sometimes we would have some robust conversations about, you know, different topics. Especially with the goal of, you know, when you're reading the news and you're trying to come to a consensus on whether or not this particular news article, you know, is reliable or trustworthy or how biased is the article, and, you're all coming from it or you're you're all looking at it from different perspectives. Of course, you know, we all are have, have our own, bias especially, you know, depending on what the topic is. So my advice, you know, when we think about communicating with people from across the political spectrum, is the whole goal of communication, when you think about it, at the end of the day, is we want to create a shared meaning. And when you engage in a conversation with someone you know, they are ideologically different from you. But my goal, and hopefully their goal is to create a shared meaning. That right there you're starting, in a good spot. So you have to ask yourself the question. And I think the the reason why so many people get so incredibly frustrated is that we want to engage in a conversation, and maybe we have the intention to create a shared meaning. I want to understand you. I want to listen to you. But if the other person it takes to write, to communicate, to I it, you know, if the other person is also doing that in good faith, then you have a good probability that you might be able to reach an understanding. Or at the end of that conversation, maybe you still haven't reached an understanding, but you're walking away from that conversation knowing, hey, we gave it our best effort. We can still have conversations, and we understand that this is just going to be something that we disagree. We see completely different points of view on this, and that's okay. You know, at least I kind of understand where you're coming from. And I can kind of get it. I don't agree with it, but I can kind of get it, you know, and that's sometimes that's the best outcome, but sometimes that's not an outcome that we're going to be able to arrive at because that shared meaning, it does take both of you to do that. And if if you're trying to force it out of someone else who is not willing to take that step, and that's when you have to ask yourself, is this something that I need to engage in further? Right. Yeah.
[00:25:24:22] Wilk Wilkinson: And that's absolutely right.
[00:25:26:06] Jennifer Furlong: The answer could be no.
[00:25:28:01] Wilk Wilkinson: Yes. And sometimes the answer could be no. I mean, you know, we have a we have a program of Braver Angels called Navigating Difficult Conversations. Bill Doherty, doctor Bill Doherty, one of the founders of Braver Angels, developed this, navigating difficult conversations. And one of the things that that first stood out to me about that particular program is, you know, we don't have to be a martyr for somebody else's, anger or, or their, their particular cause. And, and sometimes they're just going to be situations where we have to say, look, I can say that we are not going to agree on this and I'm, I'm not, feeling that that there's anything positive that's going to happen by continuing this on. And then at that way you just kind of break ties and you got to move away. But yeah, you're right. It does take good faith. Actors on and on both sides to say, okay, we're going to operate in this conversation and in good faith. And, I am going to listen to you. You are going to listen to me. Maybe we do not find common ground on anything. Our goal will be to find common ground. If we can find some points of common ground, great. If we can't, that's fine. We can walk away just understanding our shared humanity. You know, I I'm. I'm a human being. You're a human being. We're both human beings that that that deserve dignity and respect. If we can agree that that's what we're going to start with as a foundation, then, if we find some common ground, great. If we don't, so be it. At least we can prove to each other that we can have a civil conversation. That's very, you know, and then the other thing about that, Jen, is, we have to realize ourselves, too, that, you know, not all things have to be said. You know, not every not every point has to be made in every conversation. Yeah. You know, I, I, I go back to an episode. I did, years ago and something that that continues to stick out for me, is, is there's an old Sufi saying, call it before you or it's called Three Gates. I believe it's called three gates. Before you speak, let your words pass through three gates. Number one, is it true? Number two is it kind? And three, is it necessary? there are going to be things. Now, I am somebody who who does not believe that we should be spouting things that that aren't true or at least that we don't have a high degree of probability that they are true. And I think people should, should start there with most things. Is this true? If it's not, then don't say it. You know, I don't care what your end goal is. If it's not true, don't say it. Yeah. And then there's a kind. We should always be kind, obviously. But then is it necessary? You know, not all things are necessary. Sometimes there's going to be things that aren't necessarily kind. People aren't going to like to hear it, but it's necessary to say, but not all things have to be said. So dive into that for me. A little bit. I kind of went off on a tangent there because I think.
[00:28:27:06] Jennifer Furlong: You know, it's a good tangent. It's important. It's it's important to make. Yeah, absolutely. Because I think sometimes we get engaged in these difficult conversations and we begin feeling like we have to win, you know, in some way. We have to we have to have the last say, or I have to make the best point, or I just want you to agree that that point that I made is a good point. And that all goes back to I just want to win. That's at the end of the day. And, you know, I think taking a step back and there are some very important questions that you do have to ask yourself. Is this even something that needs to be said? Like at the end of the day, what is my goal? Is my goal. I truly is this my ego talking to? Do I have to win? Is is that what my goal is or is is my goal? I just want them to understand me. Is my goal that I want to understand them, you know? And all too often I think we just get so wrapped up in the idea of, I just want to say what I want to say, and then I don't want any pushback. I just want everybody to agree with me. And, when we box ourselves in like that, that's what creates a lot of friction and a lot of these, communications that we have with other people that we disagree with. And so I think taking a step back and say, you know, is, is that even something necessary for me to say, what what what am I trying to gain out of this? What will I gain if I say that?
[00:30:03:07] Wilk Wilkinson: No, that's right. And it is. It is so right. And when you talk about what am I trying to get out of this conversation. Right. And then, then, then just thinking about navigating those difficult conversations or navigating the conversation that I'm going to get into with somebody that I know clearly does not have. Maybe they do not like me. Maybe I know for certain they they they, they disagree with me vehemently about a particular topic. Maybe it's the topic we're going to discuss, but but I always think of a couple things when one of the things is I came up with a long time ago, You cannot hate somebody into believing what you believe or seeing the world the way that you do. But then I then I also think about that old Lincoln quote where he says, I do not like that man. I must get to know him better. So when when I'm thinking about getting into that conversation with that person or whatever, you know, that group of people, that person or whatever, you know, I may not like them. I don't have to like them. I don't have to like their ideology or their particular perspective on them, but on a particular thing. But my goal is going to be to get to know them better, understand not just what they believe, but why they believe it. And the only way that I can do that is to listen with intention and just come back to that. That thing that you, you talk about is, you know, it's not a matter of how I need to communicate, but how they are going to communicate and how I can best communicate with them. There's a lot of work that needs. And I'll go back to when we talk about our brave angels a lot, and that's courageous citizenship. And and one of the most courageous things that we can do, John. And then I'll give you the last word on this as we wrap up our time. But one of the last or one of the greatest things that we can do, one of the most courageous things that we can do when we're communicating is to listen with intention, because that listening with intention, understanding who that person is and why they believe what they believe. It takes courage. It takes a lot of courage, especially when it's somebody that we know disagrees with us. So I'll give you the final word. Our time here is gone, incredibly fast. And, I'd like you to round us out with, your thoughts on that.
[00:32:33:02] Jennifer Furlong: That's always good. That's. But I, I agree, it takes courage. It takes being willing to, put your ego aside, and I would just encourage everyone to begin thinking about yourselves as communications strategists, asking the questions first of yourself. Any situation that I get into, any conversation that I'm getting into, what is my goal for this conversation and how is the best way you know? What is the best way for me to go about achieving that goal? And I think it when that's the first step, how can I adapt? You know, my communication style to their communication style, listening and really paying attention, you'll find that, it's going to open up a lot of doors in terms of learning, sharing and gaining gaining an understanding of that person, not necessarily agreeing, but at least understanding.
[00:33:37:05] Wilk Wilkinson: That's right, Jennifer Furlong thank you so much for another fantastic conversation. I'm already looking forward to the next one. And we'll make sure that, your information is in the show notes so people know how to get Ahold of you. thank you for joining me again today on Derate the Hate.
[00:33:51:05] Jennifer Furlong: Oh, thanks for having me. I enjoyed it.
[00:33:54:19] Wilk Wilkinson: Friends, I want to thank you so much for tuning in. And if there's anything in this episode that provided exceptional value to you, please make sure to hit that share button. If you haven't done so already, please be sure to subscribe to get the Derate the Hate podcast sent to your email inbox every week. We really are better together, so please take a moment to visit BraverAngels.org and consider joining the movement towards civic renewal and bridging our political divides. This is Wilk wrapping up for the week saying get out there. Be kind to one another. Be grateful for everything you've got. And remember, it's up to you to make every day the day that you want it to be. With that, my friends, I'm going to back on out of here and we will catch you next week. Take care.
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